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Iraq takes the Russian appraoch to battling ISIS

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  • maurobaggio
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jul 2008
    • 521

    #21
    Apparently the US will provide 2000 APKWS II (Laser Guided Rocket Hydra) to Iraq.

    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/

    I don't have the information if those APKWS II will be integrated only with the F 16C/D and not with others Iraqi aircraft such as: Su 25, Mil Mi 28NE.

    Comment

    • FBW
      FBW
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2011
      • 3294

      #22
      Originally posted by mrmalaya View Post
      It's not naive and i am not getting drawn into a Russia versus the west debate. I am also aware that Russia has precision weapons.

      The FAE in question have been used to depopulate urban areas in the past as well as the hidden underground targets they were designed for.

      By the way I am talking about a Western perspective, and not comparing the US with Russia. We shall have to wait and see how these rockets are used. Given the lack of an Iraqi airforce, is it the case that they are effectively taking the place of air strikes I wonder?
      FAE are a particularly nasty weapon. Considering the banning of cluster munitions (which the U.S. is not a signatory of, nor is Russia) nor the considered ban on FAE, FAE are brutal in their area effects. At the same time that the U.S. and others are engaging in developing SDB-II and similar weapons to limit collateral damage, we have the MOAB and FOAB which have the opposite, and indiscriminant damage to a wide area.

      There is no advantage to Iraq using these weapons against the ISIS, it would be better for the western nations and Russia to provide guided weapons to the air force, they are using these in their own country (in some cases against Sunni tribal factions which are by and large Iraqi).

      There is a limit to what the Iraqi air force can do without support from outside, arming the IqAF with wide area munitions will only exacerbate what is, and will remain a bad situation.
      Last edited by FBW; 26th November 2014, 05:32.

      Comment

      • sheytanelkebir
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2013
        • 783

        #23
        further to this...

        Confirmation from the Iraqi MOD:

        1- that they stopped the purchase of any L159s from Czech Republic.

        2- They have agreed with the US on delaying further payments for the F16IQ

        3- Funds have been reallocated to buy "sukhois" and large volumes of munitions.

        4- They have speeded up the work on the T50-IQ with South Korea (they were originally scheduled for January 2016 delivery)

        5- There is also unconfirmed news about the UAE donating 6x Super Tucanos and 10x Mirage-2000-9s to Iraq

        6- Iraqi Army aviation also finally confirmed without a shadow of a doubt that they will not buy Apaches or AT6C texans and that Orders with Russia will be increased.

        7- Russia has agreed to sell Iraq weapons with deferred payments.


        So that's the "state of play" as of now.

        Comment

        • MadRat
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2006
          • 5032

          #24
          1. I'm not sure the L159T was a turnkey solution, so it probably had too much lead time to introduction.
          2. Any specifics here?
          3. No number of Su-25's is going to secure their airspace
          4. T-50IQ should help train F-16IQ pilots immediately, but otherwise is not that much tactical help.
          5. Pretty useless IMHO.
          6. I believe they this made the decision mid-summer of 2014
          7. With drop in oil prices this has to hurt Russia.
          Last edited by MadRat; 30th January 2015, 12:26.
          Go Huskers!

          Comment

          • swerve
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jun 2005
            • 13612

            #25
            They're not facing an air threat, so securing their airspace isn't an urgent need. Su-25s will be fine for bombing IS, & if IS gets some light aircraft, enough to shoot them down.

            If the rumour is true, the Super Tucanos will also be useful for COIN, & the Mirage 2000-9s will be at least as good as the F-16IQ for securing airspace - & cheaper, if free.

            With Mica, the Mirage 2000s would be much better air-air than F-16s with Sparrow.
            Last edited by swerve; 2nd February 2015, 13:20.
            Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
            Justinian

            Comment

            • JSR
              JSR
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2011
              • 4982

              #26
              Originally posted by MadRat View Post
              1. I'm not sure the L159T was a turnkey solution, so it probably had too much lead time to introduction.
              Its industrial supply chain was EU based
              7. With drop in oil prices this has to hurt Russia.
              Few billions dollar of weopons and training is not make difference to Russia but its far more important that Iraq production increase in safe environment.

              http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...riggered-slump

              Comment

              • sheytanelkebir
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2013
                • 783

                #27
                Originally posted by MadRat View Post
                1. I'm not sure the L159T was a turnkey solution, so it probably had too much lead time to introduction.
                they were negotiating for 15 second hand units. not new builds.

                2. Any specifics here?
                Yes. They deferred a $1.5Bn payment that was planned for 2015 for the F16IQ programme.

                3. No number of Su-25's is going to secure their airspace
                No F16 IQ (armed with 40 year old sparrows) would secure it either. Perhaps SU30 would have a better chance.

                4. T-50IQ should help train F-16IQ pilots immediately, but otherwise is not that much tactical help.
                They will be delivered near year end. Both for attack as well as advanced training.

                5. Pretty useless IMHO.
                Why? They need every airframe they can get right now and the Super Tucanos are pretty ok for use on the desert regions IMHO where you have small outposts who desperately need air support. As for the Mirages... well the Iraqi MOD held some meetings with French MOD officials to discuss french "support" for Iraq only last week. Lets see if France offers some assistance in operating the Mirage 2000-9s.

                6. I believe they this made the decision mid-summer of 2014
                Yes. And now they confirmed more helicopter purchase from Russia as well as more "Sukhois" and munitions for them.

                7. With drop in oil prices this has to hurt Russia.X
                Yes it will hurt Russia somewhat in the short term. But it seems Russians made a strategic decision on this. Similarly the US, Kuwait, UAE are all delivering weapons for free to Iraq too, and the US is also discussing potential for "deferred payments" for some future weapons purchases to speed up delivery.
                Last edited by sheytanelkebir; 30th January 2015, 16:16.

                Comment

                • MadRat
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 5032

                  #28
                  The L159T being negotiated for were in storage and parts had to be resecured. The avionics and engines were probably sold off previously as the Czechs have been cash poor trying to find sales of anything aerospace. The new generation L-39 looks easier to sell. Everybody in L-159's market wants to build their own because so much is available on the open markets.
                  Go Huskers!

                  Comment

                  • MSphere
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 8983

                    #29
                    Originally posted by MadRat View Post
                    1. I'm not sure the L159T was a turnkey solution, so it probably had too much lead time to introduction.
                    2. Any specifics here?
                    3. No number of Su-25's is going to secure their airspace
                    4. T-50IQ should help train F-16IQ pilots immediately, but otherwise is not that much tactical help.
                    5. Pretty useless IMHO.
                    6. I believe they this made the decision mid-summer of 2014
                    7. With drop in oil prices this has to hurt Russia.
                    3. Are we sure that it's about Su-25?
                    5. What would you propose as a solution, instead?
                    7. The oil price drop also affects Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or other Gulf States

                    Comment

                    • sheytanelkebir
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Feb 2013
                      • 783

                      #30
                      Iraq receives another shipment of Mi28Ne helicopters.

                      Commander of the Army Aviaiton Command in this video outlines three interesting facts.

                      1- The new helicopters were delivered with Radars and new weapons to enable them to fight at night more effectively.

                      2- The new helicopters will enter testing this week and enter service in March.

                      3- In 2 days another shipment of Mi28Ne will be received, concluding the delivery of the current batch.






                      PS. he also mentioned the delivery of new Bell 407s...

                      Comment

                      • Y-20 Bacon
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 2176

                        #31
                        Originally posted by sheytanelkebir View Post
                        further to this...

                        Confirmation from the Iraqi MOD:

                        1- that they stopped the purchase of any L159s from Czech Republic.

                        2- They have agreed with the US on delaying further payments for the F16IQ

                        3- Funds have been reallocated to buy "sukhois" and large volumes of munitions.

                        4- They have speeded up the work on the T50-IQ with South Korea (they were originally scheduled for January 2016 delivery)

                        5- There is also unconfirmed news about the UAE donating 6x Super Tucanos and 10x Mirage-2000-9s to Iraq

                        6- Iraqi Army aviation also finally confirmed without a shadow of a doubt that they will not buy Apaches or AT6C texans and that Orders with Russia will be increased.

                        7- Russia has agreed to sell Iraq weapons with deferred payments.


                        So that's the "state of play" as of now.
                        so much wishful thinking.
                        how long will all these equipment end up in the hands of ISIS again?

                        Comment

                        • sheytanelkebir
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Feb 2013
                          • 783

                          #32
                          Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                          so much wishful thinking.
                          how long will all these equipment end up in the hands of ISIS again?
                          Remind me how many aircraft and helicopters have ended up in isis hands before, in order for there to be an "again"?

                          Comment

                          • Jungle Boy
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 230

                            #33
                            Originally posted by sheytanelkebir View Post
                            Remind me how many aircraft and helicopters have ended up in isis hands before, in order for there to be an "again"?
                            I dont know about air assets but ground assets I saw a lot. Lots of M1 tanks ended in ISIS hands and US had to destroy them. Iraq already lost half of its M1 tanks and ordered another 140.

                            Comment

                            • sheytanelkebir
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Feb 2013
                              • 783

                              #34
                              Originally posted by Jungle Boy View Post
                              I dont know about air assets but ground assets I saw a lot. Lots of M1 tanks ended in ISIS hands and US had to destroy them. Iraq already lost half of its M1 tanks and ordered another 140.
                              Zero abrams tanks were captured in tact by isis. They did destroy 10 or so. In a year of fighting. If you have evidence for any more I'd love to hear about it. Certainly the us did not destroy a single abrams tank. Once again if you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to hear it.

                              But surely unreliable units manned by sunni Arabs and kurds turned coat in June 2014 and handed over their weapons and equipment to isis (sunni Arabs) and peshmerga (kurds). But the only "major asset" lost was a battalion of m198 guns that was shared about equally between isis and the kurds. Asbyou well realise "loyal units" of the iraqi army did not collapse and stopped the isis and peshmerga ddrive... Right about where those groups have popular support. Otherwise surely isis would be in control of baghdad karbala najaf nasiriya basra and the other provinces... Curiously the "collapsed iraqi army" did not collapse there.
                              Last edited by sheytanelkebir; 7th February 2015, 20:25.

                              Comment

                              • Jungle Boy
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 230

                                #35
                                Originally posted by sheytanelkebir View Post
                                Zero abrams tanks were captured in tact by isis. They did destroy 10 or so. In a year of fighting. If you have evidence for any more I'd love to hear about it. Certainly the us did not destroy a single abrams tank. Once again if you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to hear it.

                                It seems pretty intact to me.



                                But it was destroyed later probably by ISIS.

                                Click image for larger version

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                                Comment

                                • Jungle Boy
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 230

                                  #36
                                  The following video shows a M1 tank allegedly in the hands of Hezbollah.

                                  Very interesting.

                                  Comment

                                  • sheytanelkebir
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2013
                                    • 783

                                    #37
                                    Tank 1 was mobility destroyed then incinerated last summer in ramadi.

                                    In the video you posted. The tank is part of a joint army and popular mobilisation column going to attack isis near haditha. That column was supported by us airpower too. Every abrams tank is owned operated and controlled by the 9th division iraqi army and us contractors accompany and maintain tanks in the field. There are no tanks in the possession of militias. They do however operate with tanks of the army and take pics with them and out flags on thenm for local propaganda.

                                    Comment

                                    • SMS88
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2007
                                      • 235

                                      #38
                                      http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqi-a...orists/5433089
                                      There are a couple of reports on fringe websites from yesterday claiming 2 British planes downed by Iraq while resupplying ISIS - one other site show a photo of a Hercules dropping pallets - anyone here know of 2 Hercules gone missing over Iraq or Syria 2 days ago, on monday, or is this a hoax???
                                      Last edited by SMS88; 25th February 2015, 20:24.

                                      Comment

                                      • sheytanelkebir
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2013
                                        • 783

                                        #39
                                        it is a hoax. spread by iranian media.

                                        Comment

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