UAE says, we dont want Typhoon!!

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

Member for

13 years 3 months

Posts: 3,337

FlightGlobal is also reporting the same..

UAE decides against Typhoon

Damn, with this rejection, one fun series of threads on Typhoon vs Rafale fanboys will end..:D

Rafale back in the driver's seat now?

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

FlightGlobal is also reporting the same..

UAE decides against Typhoon

Damn, with this rejection, one fun series of threads on Typhoon vs Rafale fanboys will end..:D

Rafale back in the driver's seat now?

I suspect that the problem with trying to sell to the UAE is that they have no pressing need to buy new fighters (their existing fleets are not running out of hours / becoming much more expensive to maintain). I think UAE is in a strong position as a buyer. UAE can ask for an awful lot and if the seller does not want to play ball, UAE can say they do not want to talk about a deal any more.

I think the decision in Brazil has not made things any simpler for Dassault: 2 or 3 years ago Dassault might have been able to take the UAE M2K's and sell a lot of them to Brazil so a big FX-2 spend could be deferred for a few years. Assuming that taking the M2K's back would be part of a Rafale deal, to whom could Dassault sell them? Some of the Balkan / ex-Yugoslav / South American states?

Perhaps UAE will approach Dassault again. They could also just opt to buy another squadron of F-16's.

Member for

17 years 10 months

Posts: 784

I suspect that the problem with trying to sell to the UAE is that they have no pressing need to buy new fighters (their existing fleets are not running out of hours / becoming much more expensive to maintain). I think UAE is in a strong position as a buyer. UAE can ask for an awful lot and if the seller does not want to play ball, UAE can say they do not want to talk about a deal any more.

I think the decision in Brazil has not made things any simpler for Dassault: 2 or 3 years ago Dassault might have been able to take the UAE M2K's and sell a lot of them to Brazil so a big FX-2 spend could be deferred for a few years. Assuming that taking the M2K's back would be part of a Rafale deal, to whom could Dassault sell them? Some of the Balkan / ex-Yugoslav / South American states?

Perhaps UAE will approach Dassault again. They could also just opt to buy another squadron of F-16's.

no no no.... the brown paper bag wasn't big enough!

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 5,396

UAE likely perceives the need to be able to keep the Strait of Hormuz open to traffic. This would place priority on finding and killing small swarming boats, camouflaged anti-shipping missile launchers and IRIAF airfields which could launch strike jets, all protected by Pansir SAM batteries. Typhoon's dreadful ground attack kit doesn't fit well with that scenario.

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 4,619

When did they want the things for anyway? Stormshadow, Brimstone and any number of PGMs are not good enough for that? Same kit the UK plans to use in its F35s at this point.....

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 992

FlightGlobal is also reporting the same..
Damn, with this rejection, one fun series of threads on Typhoon vs Rafale fanboys will end..:D

Well, we can always have other fun series of threads for those fanboys, such as "Typhoon or Rafale, who is the most miserable exporting fighter in 20XX??", "The King of Losers ~ The ultimate competition between Rafale and Typhoon", "Rafale v.s Typhoon, The Record of Losers' War", and so on:highly_amused:

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 2,814

Well, we can always have other fun series of threads for those fanboys, such as "Typhoon or Rafale, who is the most miserable exporting fighter in 20XX??", "The King of Losers ~ The ultimate competition between Rafale and Typhoon", "Rafale v.s Typhoon, The Record of Losers' War", and so on:highly_amused:

Don't give people ideas...:rolleyes:

Member for

12 years 11 months

Posts: 1,542

The simple fact of the matter is that while all 3 Euro canards are Cold War relics, Rafale and Typhoon aren't that well suited to the world today. The Swedes, by luck or genius, decided on a more basic design at a reduced cost, and the result is a great multi role platform that is affordable.

Rafale and Typhoon are simply too expensive for many countries, and the performance gains are hard to justify.

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 2,814

The simple fact of the matter is that while all 3 Euro canards are Cold War relics, Rafale and Typhoon aren't that well suited to the world today. The Swedes, by luck or genius, decided on a more basic design at a reduced cost, and the result is a great multi role platform that is affordable.

Rafale and Typhoon are simply too expensive for many countries, and the performance gains are hard to justify.

I don't think either aircraft is too expensive for UAE. If money was a problem for UAE they wouldn't be looking for a new aircraft and having this competitive tender in the first place.

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

When did they want the things for anyway? Stormshadow, Brimstone and any number of PGMs are not good enough for that? Same kit the UK plans to use in its F35s at this point.....

More or less 10 years since entering service this swing-role A2A and A2G aircraft's A2G capability is limited to (a) dropping dumb bombs (b) making a large bang with Paveway II. No customer wanting a serious A2G capability would choose Typhoon on merit over F-15, F-16, F/A-18, Gripen or Rafale. You don't see Stormshadow, Brimstone and any number of PGMs on Typhoon. The only guided munition you see on Typhoon is Paveway II. By the time the full range of planned A2G munitions is integrated Typhoon will likely be out of production.

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 4,619

Sorry, but what you have just said is plain wrong. Take a look at the actual situation. PW II and variants has been cleared for a long time, PWIV is practically operational, Stormshadow and Taurus will be operational by 2015 and SPEAR variants and various other smaller PGMS are slated by 2018. You could even have an ASM if you liked by then....

When are your export aircraft due for delivery?

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,202

Good bnew for the UAE, so they won´t buy the least developed fighter offered.

Member for

11 years 2 months

Posts: 157

lol or the final battle of the eurocanards or eurocanards secret origins in Ye8

Well, we can always have other fun series of threads for those fanboys, such as "Typhoon or Rafale, who is the most miserable exporting fighter in 20XX??", "The King of Losers ~ The ultimate competition between Rafale and Typhoon", "Rafale v.s Typhoon, The Record of Losers' War", and so on:highly_amused:

How much $million does the Typhoon and Rafale unit cost in 2013 currency rates?

The simple fact of the matter is that while all 3 Euro canards are Cold War relics, Rafale and Typhoon aren't that well suited to the world today. The Swedes, by luck or genius, decided on a more basic design at a reduced cost, and the result is a great multi role platform that is affordable.

Rafale and Typhoon are simply too expensive for many countries, and the performance gains are hard to justify.

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,631

Good bnew for the UAE, so they won´t buy the least developed fighter offered.
You must have had so many sleepless nights trying to think that one up.

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

Good bnew for the UAE, so they won´t buy the least developed fighter offered.

You must have had so many sleepless nights trying to think that one up.

True, though, isn't it?

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,631

True, though, isn't it?
Who says the UAE would have purchased the Typhoon as it is now? If they wanted a "developed" aeroplane then they wouldn't have looked at it in the first place.

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 4,619

The timescale doesn't fit the facts, but why let the facts get in the way of some Typhoon bashing.

The facts are, the Typhoon now is as developed as any customers want it to be and that will be true in the future too.

It hasn't been true in the past and some people are stuck there....

If you are going to post seriously you can at least bother with the facts.

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

Who says the UAE would have purchased the Typhoon as it is now? If they wanted a "developed" aeroplane then they wouldn't have looked at it in the first place.

True.. but IIRC they did not look at Typhoon in the first place. They looked at Rafale, wanted some improvements and took exception in a big way to the price they were asked to pay. Remember also that the UAE were so disenchanted with the negotiations that their representative went to France to see President Sarkozy who was unaware of the reason for the visit. They publicly snubbed France and started talking to Eurofighter.

What do UAE do next? I have no idea. If they don't like the deals Dassault and Eurofighter offered they could always buy more Block 60 F-16 aircraft if they want to increase their air force's capability. Then they might be able to buy shiny new F-35's to replace their M2K's in the next decade.

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

The timescale doesn't fit the facts, but why let the facts get in the way of some Typhoon bashing.

True, I am very critical of the Typhoon program. The inability of the partner countries to do a little joined up thinking has deeply compromised the success of this aircraft. It has added billions to its cost (eg dithering over order timing) and squandered the opportunity of winning export contracts by failing to fund developments that were going to be funded eventually anyway (eg by having to offer a multi-role aircraft that was not multi-role to Korea and Singapore years ago). Extra orders would have strengthened the high tech industrial base of the countries concerned and increased government tax takes. I live in England so pay tax, part of which goes towards paying for the RAF to buy and operate Typhoon. I do not like seeing my financial contribution and that of other taxpayers squandered by basic, basic stupidities such as failing to make all aircraft upgradable easily to allow CFT, AESA to be installed if/when required.

The facts are, the Typhoon now is as developed as any customers want it to be and that will be true in the future too.

It hasn't been true in the past and some people are stuck there....

If you are going to post seriously you can at least bother with the facts.

I don't believe the Typhoon now is as developed as any customers want it to be. It does not provide the strike capability of the Tornado. What are the facts? Have Meteor, Brimstone, Storm Shadow integration contracts been signed?

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 992


I don't believe the Typhoon now is as developed as any customers want it to be. It does not provide the strike capability of the Tornado. What are the facts? Have Meteor, Brimstone, Storm Shadow integration contracts been signed?

The integration contract for Meteor BVRAAM has already been signed this year. As for Brimstone and Storm Shadow, well, let's us hope there will be good news (confirmatory contract of integration) in 2014, 2015, or 2016........:apologetic: