J-15, what is Russia getting out of it, if any?

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Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

with china mass producing their su-33 clone, the J-15 now
will russia get anything out of it? royalties? license fees?

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Member for

11 years 2 months

Posts: 1,059

with china mass producing their su-33 clone, the J-15 now
will russia get anything out of it? royalties? license fees?
Not unless China has done a one eighty on stealing others technology without paying.

Member for

11 years 10 months

Posts: 980

I seriously doubt they'll forward anything to Russia on the production of J-15's. The best Russia could hope for is to be "honored" with further sales to the PLAAF/PLAN. During the Cold War in the 20th century, this would not have worked at all. Russia would have suspended all sales/support (if any) to China.

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10 years 11 months

Posts: 184

why people always everyday think it is clone.
j15 has aesa, fbw, lcd all from china, and it will use ws10 engine also from china
j15 body is base on j11.
su33 do not have these.
of cos china look at su33 body from yukraine to study but it is not su33.
russia cannot make j15 really.

Member for

12 years 3 months

Posts: 307

why people always everyday think it is clone.
j15 has aesa, fbw, lcd all from china, and it will use ws10 engine also from china
j15 body is base on j11.
su33 do not have these.
of cos china look at su33 body from yukraine to study but it is not su33.
russia cannot make j15 really.

Stop saying russia cannot make this and that, put your points forward as you have is fine. It must be remebered that Su-33 is being retired from russian navy. So china is using a very old airframe design. What ever you say its a old airframe, why didnt they make a stealth carrier plan if they are that good. I

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 149

why people always everyday think it is clone.
j15 has aesa, fbw, lcd all from china, and it will use ws10 engine also from china
j15 body is base on j11.
su33 do not have these.
of cos china look at su33 body from yukraine to study but it is not su33.
russia cannot make j15 really.

Russia has the intellectual property on the airframe that China was licensed to built to a certain number. The scope and nature of modifications that can be done to the original design were subject to terms and conditions outlined in the license contract. Regardless of what your definition of a clone is, the J-15 design is a breach of that IP and hence the contract.

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11 years 10 months

Posts: 26

I believe J-15 still use Russian engines

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24 years 2 months

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It's palembang...don't take anything he/she says seriously.

The J-15 is an Su-33 with some improvements, and I wouldn't imagine Russia would get a thing unless the Chinese are feeling very benevolent all of a sudden.

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 262

Simply put ... Either China has Russian blessings for coping their IP stuff (with or without paying) or China is showing them carrots and using their stick at will.

Sorry for being outright truthful, who don't know their real relationship. My one liner is, (as for Russia keeping their eyes closed to this whole affair)

Russia deserves China

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10 years 4 months

Posts: 142

At the MAKS 2009, Rosoboronexport's General Manager Anatoli Isaykin was quoted saying: "Russia is going to investigate the J-11B, as a Chinese copy of the Su-27 and Sukhoi Company is partaking in the process." In 2010, Rosoboronexport announced via their official website that it was in talks with the Chinese side, regarding the ongoing production of weapons that Russia considers as un-licenced. In light of the ongoing investigations, Rosoboronexport expressed its concern over future sales of advanced Russian systems and components to China

read links
http://lenta.ru/news/2009/08/19/copy/

http://maks2010.blogspot.jp/

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 262

And what is the outcome of investigation (already 3 years passed) void.

Even China now has copies of Su33 in the air with Russian engines :angel: and frequent articles in Russian media regarding possible sale of Su-35.

It seems Russian side is eager to sell their latest technology but it is China refusing to buy. Why should China pay if can get free of cost? :D

Member for

10 years 4 months

Posts: 142

And what is the outcome of investigation (already 3 years passed) void.

Even China now has copies of Su33 in the air with Russian engines :angel: and frequent articles in Russian media regarding possible sale of Su-35.

It seems Russian side is eager to sell their latest technology but it is China refusing to buy. Why should China pay if can get free of cost? :D

it seems they fixed the issue see

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=4999

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su27sk/history/

see they say since 1998 been produced and the implementation of the program of Su-type licensed aircraft production is going on, it means they fixed the deal at least to me

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11 years 1 month

Posts: 262

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=4999

Cooperation with China in the field of military aviation develops successfully. The implementation of the program of Su-type licensed aircraft production is going on, as well as the delivery of spare parts for previously delivered aircraft. The framework established on the basis of long-term cooperation provides for the transition in the near future to a new level of cooperation on major projects.

What types are those? Are they talking about Su-27, Su-30, Su-33 or Su-35?

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/mil...u27sk/history/

Su-27SKs have since 1998 been produced as the F/J-11 in China under licence in accordance with intergovernmental agreement. The first licensed-production plane, assembled in the town of Shenyang, was flight tested on 16th December 1998.

Neither I know like most of us here nor I care that what was/is the agreement. What matter the most is that Russia has fixed the issue. I happy for you guys and wish you all the best with sharing S400, S500, Su-35 and PAK-FA.

Like I said earlier Russia deserves China :p

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

Enough With the drama allready..

The Russians are not stupid. They quite like trading With China. Is good for Russias Income and the Company in question. If the Russians "feel" they can come to agreements With China, no sweat. They will sell most of their Equipment.
One thing though.. Russia has their ToT regulation as well. We have seen it on various of Products.

a handfull of Su-33 is nothing to fuzz about when it comes to ToT. That design is quite old by now. Still Russia can make a few bucks out of it..

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

Always stupidity around this issue.

Russia is getting absolutely nothing from this. China bought a bird from Ukraine, and ripped it off. Oh well, nothing new from the least original country in the world.

I always laugh at this panick mongering over how Russia is getting screwed from China. Russia made Billions from China, and continues to this day to make lucrative deals in the sphere of defense. These deals helped Russian industry emerge from the 90s and 2000s in much better shape than they otherwise would have. Easily worth any Chinese "acceleration" in military capability and design.
Further, China has never exported ripped off Russian designs (aside from old Soviet stuff that Russia can't compete with price wise anwyays), so any "loss" Russia has is easily outweighed by the actual income from deals with China.

Everything Russia exports to China is sufficiently export modified, and in any case China poses no threat to Russia due to nuclear deterrence (as well as an obviously huge military).

All of it is small fish compared to the growing economic trade between the two nations, something I hope keeps growing.

EDIT: Further if we wanna talk about piracy or "future competition" loss, the biggest losers with China are all the foreign companies doing buisness (and suffering massive IP loss) in China. Yet they keep doing it for obvious reasons, and I don't see people doing the same "Dumb Russians selling things to China" routine. Nothing unexpected about that however.

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10 years 4 months

Posts: 142

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=4999

What types are those? Are they talking about Su-27, Su-30, Su-33 or Su-35?

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/mil...u27sk/history/

Neither I know like most of us here nor I care that what was/is the agreement. What matter the most is that Russia has fixed the issue. I happy for you guys and wish you all the best with sharing S400, S500, Su-35 and PAK-FA.

Like I said earlier Russia deserves China :p


I do not know what deal China and Russia struck, however it seems the sale of Su-35s is not yet acomplished Sergey Chemezov, director general of Russian Technologies State Corporation, said it won` happen this year

read link
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131120000121&cid=1101

See Chezemov is General director of ROSTEC, this is an official source

Read link where they say made in Russia Su-35s only and this is an official source
http://rostec.ru/en/news/1304

See they say assembled so China is not allowed to copy the Su-35, if you read what are what some sources are saying is Russia has put some limitations in regard copy rights to China, plus Russia is selling engines Al-31 for J-10s and J-11s.

According to some sources Russia is even denying the right to repair the Su-35 in China since Beijing is reportedly trying to convince Moscow to have a maintenance center for the aircraft set up in China as part of the contract..

see this shows the Russians maybe and here i say maybe since is my opinion and not a fact, have accepted J-15s use Al-31s in exchance for engine sales and other off sets but they are unwilling to accept China copies Su-35

http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Shenyang-J-15.jpg

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 262

^ Thanks Mig for the links and information. It is clear, there were issues regarding IP around 2010 which might have settled via one or other deal for now.

It is interesting to see ... what comes out with up to date technology negotiations with respect to China and if Chinese stick to terms n conditions.

We will find it out in next decade.

Member for

11 years

Posts: 113

Ukraine made some money. Russia didn't offer a good deal, so the Chinese went to the Ukrainian. That's how business works. Same with J-11B, Russia wanted China to stick to their upgrade path with Russian avionics and weapons. The Chinese rather put their own avionics and weapons on their own planes. That's what smart countries do. F-15I anyone? If Russia want to make more money, they should offer better deals with better technologies. You can't expect every country to be stupid like India.

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

There are an agreement behind the J-11B as well. China can never ever export any J-11/15 fighter linage. Period! It remains to be seen how much China paid for this..

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 262

Ukraine made some money. Russia didn't offer a good deal, so the Chinese went to the Ukrainian. That's how business works. Same with J-11B, Russia wanted China to stick to their upgrade path with Russian avionics and weapons. The Chinese rather put their own avionics and weapons on their own planes. That's what smart countries do. F-15I anyone? If Russia want to make more money, they should offer better deals with better technologies. You can't expect every country to be stupid like India.

Everyone is smarta** except India. We stick to our own basic rules, I believe in long term it is good. But that is another topic altogether.

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11 years

Posts: 113

Everyone is smarta** except India. We stick to our own basic rules, I believe in long term it is good. But that is another topic altogether.

What Indian rules? Babus get fat, the country get nothing?