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By: - 7th November 2013 at 15:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
in wikipedia "IAI Kfir"(last modified 6 nov 2013) ;
By October 2013, Israel Aerospace Industries was in "very advanced negotiations" with at least two air forces interested in the Kfir Block 60
friendly, Etienne
By: - 7th November 2013 at 17:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is an interesting brochure that goes into great detail about the block 60's capabilities:
ftp://ftpd.iai.co.il/KFIR/Military%20Ac%20upgrde%20capabilities%20-%20LAHAV%20FOR%20MEDIA%202013.pdf
I could see some Eastern European countries buying this to replace old soviet equipment. Hell even Argentina might go for these aircraft seeing as they still operate their original fleet of Mirages...
By: - 7th November 2013 at 17:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Speciallt considering that some Lybian pilots are going to be trained on mirage F1 (have no moe details)
By: - 7th November 2013 at 18:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not really a threat to Gripen sales IMHO, because these do not reach the level of a Gripen in capability.
They would basically make the FA-50 look overly expensive in comparison, but wouldn't impact T-50 Golden Eagle sales.
They do essentially match the JF-17 technology-wise and will be a fine way for western leaning countries to opt out of Chinese influence.
By: - 8th November 2013 at 09:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
With IAI saying they can deliver 50 Kfir block 60 air-frames at around 20 million US each who would buy them and how will this affect sales of Gripen and JF-17 and FA-50For me the likes of Sri-Lanka might take up to 12 but who else?
does IAI still produce new Kfirs or is that the price of just the upgrades?
By: - 8th November 2013 at 11:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
does IAI still produce new Kfirs or is that the price of just the upgrades?
These will be over hauled upgraded air-frames with zero hours engine new wiring -glass cockpit -AESA radar - data link all the 4.5 gen stuff
By: - 8th November 2013 at 13:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
does IAI still produce new Kfirs
Not for many years, but it has dozens in storage.
By: - 8th November 2013 at 14:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The last new built Kfirs (and in fact the only new-build exports) were the Colombian ones.
The others (Ecuador, Sri Lanka) were just recoinditioned ex-IDF airframes.
By: - 8th November 2013 at 22:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
These will be over hauled upgraded air-frames with zero hours engine new wiring -glass cockpit -AESA radar - data link all the 4.5 gen stuff
are you sure about the AESA? the brochure says its using the 2032 radar
By: - 8th November 2013 at 23:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surprising poor diction and rather chaotic organization of that brochure.:) That being said, indeed there's hardly any mention about an AESA except maybe once ("EASA"?). So what's the difference between the Kfir block 60 and Kfir C10 then?
By: - 8th November 2013 at 23:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surprising poor diction and rather chaotic organization of that brochure.:) That being said, indeed there's hardly any mention about an AESA except maybe once ("EASA"?). So what's the difference between the Kfir block 60 and Kfir C10 then?
Time-scale of the hardware and the related software is the difference. A true AESA with the related software is just too costly for an upgrade as long as someone is willing to pay for that extra. Modern radars are modular built.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 01:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surprising poor diction and rather chaotic organization of that brochure.:) That being said, indeed there's hardly any mention about an AESA except maybe once ("EASA"?). So what's the difference between the Kfir block 60 and Kfir C10 then?Block 60 shall have EL/M-2052 AESA, Link 16, new mission computer, new navigation system, new cockpit layout.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 05:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Block 60s looks good on paper it has everything you would ask for in a 4th Gen aircraft. Yet its only drawback is its outdated air frame its a tough sale when a buyer could easily get some used Gripens that are still in great structure conditions but with the upside of having lower hrs on them.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 08:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Despite the sloppy brochure (and video if you've seen it on YouTube...touts the features but uses a Top Gun clip or two which is weird...), I think the new Kfir makes for an interesting alternative to some of the other smaller types on the market though I'm sure many will point to the American supplied engine as a weakness from a political perspective. The airframe itself isn't state of the art by any means, but it's small size and good overall performance have to count for something even if it can't pull 9Gs and do some of the other fancy air show tricks that people like so much. It's got a great stores carrying capability, and with 9 hardpoints you can spread things around a bit. The weapons suite seems to be pretty good and the avionics are certainly solid though I admit I don't know much about the 2052 radar. Based on what I've heard about IAI's avionics, I'd wager it's a good set.
Personally I doubt we will see any sales, but I'm hoping that at least one operator will jump on board as I'd like to see the Mirage III/V family continue for quite some time (again, provided they continue to be safe to fly airframes). Interesting proposal to say the least!
On a personal note, I love the look that the 2032 radar gives the Kfir...that big nose suits it!
By: - 9th November 2013 at 12:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Block 60s looks good on paper it has everything you would ask for in a 4th Gen aircraft. Yet its only drawback is its outdated air frame its a tough sale when a buyer could easily get some used Gripens that are still in great structure conditions but with the upside of having lower hrs on them.
The airframes offered by IAI are reconditioned to zero hours with service life expectancy of 8,000 hours.
The same goes for the J79-J1E which are zero hours with 1,600 hours MTBO.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 14:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hope they'll pay a few royalties to Dassault (after all, they stole the design)
By: - 9th November 2013 at 14:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They didn't. The alleged masterpeice Mossad action in Switzerland was actually done with silent approval of Dassault.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 18:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
POssible. Clues?
By: - 9th November 2013 at 20:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If anything Dassault wishes they could've gotten a few more miles out of that airframe...though I suppose they tried with the Mirage 3NG.
By: - 9th November 2013 at 20:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
POssible. Clues?
I think it was Ostrovsky.. Not entirely sure, though..
Can anyone confirm? Haven't read his book in years.
Posts: 976
By: Tempest414 - 7th November 2013 at 14:35
With IAI saying they can deliver 50 Kfir block 60 air-frames at around 20 million US each who would buy them and how will this affect sales of Gripen and JF-17 and FA-50
For me the likes of Sri-Lanka might take up to 12 but who else?