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how would you re-build the Azerbaijani military aviation?

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  • Tempest414
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2012
    • 975

    #21
    I think it depends on what life the current Mig-29's have left if there is life left to carry out an upgrade to SMT standard then possibly this is the way forward pick the 15 best airframes and rotate them through the upgrade program at the same time buy 20 Mig-35's once the first 8 29's are back from upgrade retire the older 29's also start to look at JF-17 as a replacement for the SU-25 fleet with a view to getting 40 airframes last of all replace the L-39 fleet with 25 Yak-130's this should give them a more flexible air defence and ground attack capability

    I still think they need to get a tactical airlift type An-32 or C-295 possibly C-295 as they already operate 3 HC-144's

    Also as said T-129's to replace Mil-24/35's
    Last edited by Tempest414; 1st July 2013, 11:18.

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    • Freehand
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • May 2012
      • 986

      #22
      Originally posted by TR1 View Post
      Also they really need to change their MiG-29 camo, it looks horrific.
      Really? It is a nice change from the usual grey.

      Comment

      • Y-20 Bacon
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2013
        • 2176

        #23
        Originally posted by TR1 View Post
        With Russia protecting Armenia though, through security guarantee, it will never happen.

        I think, if we look at the situation objectively, the sooner Azerbaijan shifts that goal, the better for the country.
        it would probably be more beneficial for Russia to side with Azerbaijan... after all they have oil and much more able to buy more Russian wares than Armenia which is a welfare state.

        does russia want its own israel or a saudi arabia?

        Comment

        • Y-20 Bacon
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2013
          • 2176

          #24
          Originally posted by AttilaA View Post
          Not aviation related but Russia started the delivery of a large package constisting of land systems to Azerbaijan, worth about $1 billion.

          http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/new...ku_idet_smerch

          There are options on all military equipment bought, including an option for 94 more T-90. Earlier reports talked of 200 T-90, so probably around that number is considered.

          Also from the article:

          So I think the prospects of purchasing new fighters from Russia is there. Also Azerbaijan seems to be seriously interested in YAK-130, pilots of the airforce made flights with it last year.
          News on Azerbaijan acquisitions are so damn varied.
          they are claiming jf-17s (never materialized, just excited stories from pakistan and china)
          as well as t-84s from ukraine, t-129s from turkey, and now t-90s and hokums from russia.
          which is legit.

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          • TR1
            TR1
            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
            • Oct 2010
            • 9785

            #25
            Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
            News on Azerbaijan acquisitions are so damn varied.
            they are claiming jf-17s (never materialized, just excited stories from pakistan and china)
            as well as t-84s from ukraine, t-129s from turkey, and now t-90s and hokums from russia.
            which is legit.
            The only legit thing so far from all that, is T-90. Since, it took part in a Baku parade.
            sigpic

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            • AttilaA
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2011
              • 61

              #26
              Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
              News on Azerbaijan acquisitions are so damn varied.
              they are claiming jf-17s (never materialized, just excited stories from pakistan and china)
              as well as t-84s from ukraine, t-129s from turkey, and now t-90s and hokums from russia.
              which is legit.
              Who is claiming what exactly? And its not difficult to distinguish between a rumour and a fact.

              JF-17 was a fabrication of some Pakistani-Chinese source, and the only thing was there was that Azerbaijan was "supposedly" interested, alongside many other countries. How exactly did Azerbaijan end up buying them, I don't know, but it seems to have confused many people.

              T-84 was likewise along the lines of "interested". T-129 is nothing beyond "interest" so far. There were news on Ka-52 negotiations which can be regarded as rumour, but there is also a recent statement which you can read above, so its probably true, but like said nothing is claimed about a purchase, only negotiations so far.

              As for T-90, see the post #10.



              Last edited by AttilaA; 2nd July 2013, 09:51.

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              • Y-20 Bacon
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2013
                • 2176

                #27
                Originally posted by AttilaA View Post
                Who is claiming what exactly? And its not difficult to distinguish between a rumour and a fact.

                JF-17 was a fabrication of some Pakistani-Chinese source, and the only thing was there was that Azerbaijan was "supposedly" interested, alongside many other countries. How exactly did Azerbaijan end up buying them, I don't know, but it seems to have confused many people.

                T-84 was likewise along the lines of "interested". T-129 is nothing beyond "interest" so far. There were news on Ka-52 negotiations which can be regarded as rumour, but there is also a recent statement which you can read above, so its probably true, but like said nothing is claimed about a purchase, only negotiations so far.

                As for T-90, see the post #10.
                very nice tanks.
                and yes, pakistani sources tend to exaggerate interests. I cant see any reason why azerbaijan would want jf-17s when they can get better.
                as for regaining nagorno-karabakh. the key issue is to convince Russia to drop the armenian side and switch over to azerbaijan.
                as it stands, russia benefits very little from Armenia, and in fact costs them money to take care of a welfare state.
                to make it worth while, azerbaijan will probably have to allow russians to move their armenian bases to azerbaijan in exchange.

                Comment

                • Owlcat
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 254

                  #28
                  Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                  as for regaining nagorno-karabakh. the key issue is to convince Russia to drop the armenian side and switch over to azerbaijan.
                  as it stands, russia benefits very little from Armenia, and in fact costs them money to take care of a welfare state.
                  to make it worth while, azerbaijan will probably have to allow russians to move their armenian bases to azerbaijan in exchange.
                  Russian stance is to avoid conflict not to instigate it so not gonna happen.

                  Aliyev knows that trying to emulate Saakashvili is the fastest way to lose his position and Georgia is trying it's best to restore relations with Russia. Erdogan is going downhill and economic ties with Russia are more important for Turkey than supporting another sectarian conflict in the neighborhood, and looking for support somewhere else, like in Israel, is going o render the same results.

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                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9785

                    #29
                    Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                    very nice tanks.
                    and yes, pakistani sources tend to exaggerate interests. I cant see any reason why azerbaijan would want jf-17s when they can get better.
                    as for regaining nagorno-karabakh. the key issue is to convince Russia to drop the armenian side and switch over to azerbaijan.
                    as it stands, russia benefits very little from Armenia, and in fact costs them money to take care of a welfare state.
                    to make it worth while, azerbaijan will probably have to allow russians to move their armenian bases to azerbaijan in exchange.
                    What welfare state? Russia doesn't spend very much to support Armenia, this isn't some multi billion dollar money sink. They help support the 102nd base in any case.
                    Russia isn't moving out of Armenia, you can stop theorizing past that.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Y-20 Bacon
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2013
                      • 2176

                      #30
                      Originally posted by Owlcat View Post
                      Russian stance is to avoid conflict not to instigate it so not gonna happen.

                      Aliyev knows that trying to emulate Saakashvili is the fastest way to lose his position and Georgia is trying it's best to restore relations with Russia. Erdogan is going downhill and economic ties with Russia are more important for Turkey than supporting another sectarian conflict in the neighborhood, and looking for support somewhere else, like in Israel, is going o render the same results.
                      your entire post is moot because Azeris have no interest in fighting with Russia or emulating Saakashvili. they just want nagorno karabakh back.

                      Comment

                      • Owlcat
                        Rank 4 Registered User
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 254

                        #31
                        Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                        your entire post is moot because Azeris have no interest in fighting with Russia or emulating Saakashvili. they just want nagorno karabakh back.
                        Ali Hasanov, Azerbaijan's deputy prime minister said in March: "President Ilham Aliyev has always promised a military solution to the [Nagorno-Karabakh] conflict and he still has the issue on the agenda. The option of a military solution is always on the table, but the most important thing is how this kind of operation will be carried out. We need to become much stronger so that if we become involved in combat in Nagorno-Karabakh we can stand up to Russian troops, because that is who we will have to face.

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                        • Y-20 Bacon
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2013
                          • 2176

                          #32
                          The question is, will the Russians want to defend Nagorno-Karabakh. its a situation between Armenia and Azerbaijan, not between Armenia-Russia and Azerbaijan. This is not like Georgia where Ossetians were also given Russian citizenship.
                          Azerbaijan also doesn't have a negative relationship with Russia, unlike Georgia. But both Russia and Azerbaijan can take it to the next level because Azerbaijan is a partner that gives better benefits for Russian than Armenia, which is a welfare state.

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                          • Y-20 Bacon
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2013
                            • 2176

                            #33
                            Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                            What welfare state? Russia doesn't spend very much to support Armenia, this isn't some multi billion dollar money sink. They help support the 102nd base in any case.
                            Russia isn't moving out of Armenia, you can stop theorizing past that.
                            it is indeed a welfare state
                            Russia is going to subsidize gas costs to Armenia
                            http://arka.am/en/news/economy/armen...s_for_armenia/

                            Russia subsidizes food for Armenia
                            http://www.rferl.org/content/Russia_...a/2168151.html

                            Russia gives Armenia weapons nearly for free
                            http://armenianow.com/karabakh/47411...ia_arms_supply

                            Also Armenian opinion of Russia is now souring. Karapetyan is accusing Russia of sponsoring a new genocide
                            http://military.einnews.com/article/157030334

                            Comment

                            • TR1
                              TR1
                              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 9785

                              #34
                              Russia subsidizes gas for a whole lot of ex-USSR countries.

                              It ain't abandoning Armenia for Azerbaijan, end of story. Far too useful of a relationship in terms of maintaining influence in the area.
                              If anything we will see Russian forces in the area receive new weapons, Iskander for example.
                              Armenians with any sense know Azerbaijan would just buy weapons from elsewhere; the close defense pact with Russia makes it irrelevant anyways.
                              War in Ngrono-Karbakh= Armenia joins in. Armenia joins in, Russian forces are obligated to assist them, not to mention they patrol Armenian Air Space. Aliyev comes off as a hot-head, but unless he is stupid, he realizes Russia will not just stand by.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • Y-20 Bacon
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2013
                                • 2176

                                #35
                                Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                Russia subsidizes gas for a whole lot of ex-USSR countries.

                                It ain't abandoning Armenia for Azerbaijan, end of story. Far too useful of a relationship in terms of maintaining influence in the area.
                                If anything we will see Russian forces in the area receive new weapons, Iskander for example.
                                Armenians with any sense know Azerbaijan would just buy weapons from elsewhere; the close defense pact with Russia makes it irrelevant anyways.
                                War in Ngrono-Karbakh= Armenia joins in. Armenia joins in, Russian forces are obligated to assist them, not to mention they patrol Armenian Air Space. Aliyev comes off as a hot-head, but unless he is stupid, he realizes Russia will not just stand by.
                                but you're avoiding the point. what exactly does Russia benefit from Armenia?
                                base near Iran? you can do that with Azerbaijan
                                base near Turkey? you can also do that with Azerbaijan
                                bases in the southern Caspian? you can't do that with Armenia
                                weapon sales? Azerbaijan pays for Russian weapons. Russia pays for Armenian weapons
                                Oil? Armenia has very little oil
                                worried about US influence? well thats why you put a base in Azerbaijan first!

                                Comment

                                • TR1
                                  TR1
                                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 9785

                                  #36
                                  Simple, a well established military relationship + a base. Why would it abandon that for Azerbaijan, where they couldn't even agree on an old radar station? No need to break relationship with Armenia, just have a working one with Azerbaijan.
                                  Armenia is a long time ally, breaking relations would not look good domestically or abroad.
                                  sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • AttilaA
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Sep 2011
                                    • 61

                                    #37
                                    Leonardo brought a M-346 advanced jet trainer to Azerbaijan on May 10. Senior leaders had a close look at the aircraft, the press release said.

                                    http://alert5.com/2017/05/12/m-346-in-azerbaijan/





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                                    • MSphere
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 8983

                                      #38
                                      Given their recent Su-30SM order, wouldn't the Yak-130 make more sense?

                                      Comment

                                      • haavarla
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 6579

                                        #39
                                        Wut!? What recent Su-30SM order?
                                        Thanks

                                        Comment

                                        • MSphere
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Feb 2010
                                          • 8983

                                          #40
                                          Sorry.. got it mixed up with Kazakhstan.. my bad

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