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how would you re-build the Azerbaijani military aviation?

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  • Y-20 Bacon
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2013
    • 2176

    how would you re-build the Azerbaijani military aviation?

    since the Argentinian one seems mostly decided.

    Azerbaijan is interesting.. growing economic energy power
    military equipment primarily: Russia, Israel, Turkey

    Enemy = Armenia, Iran

    Russia was generally pro-Armenia, but with the money Azerbaijan can pour into Russian defense industries, and growing energy interests.. good chance Russia can ditch Armenia for Azerbaijan which would be more lucrative.
    but don't count on new Sukhoi sales to Azerbaijan.. since Sukhoi is run by an Armenian.
  • thobbes
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2010
    • 2116

    #2
    Current equipment (according to Wikipedia - sorry no better source):

    24 x MiG-29/UB (older MiGs retired)
    33 x Su-25 (apparently upgraded to Scorpion standard)
    5 x Su-24
    28 x L-39
    5 x Il-76
    84 x Mi-24/-35
    100 x Mi-8/-17.

    Investment has been made in various Israeli UAVs (Hermes, Heron, Searcher etc).

    Map of country:




    Population is about 9 million.
    Last edited by thobbes; 13th June 2013, 00:38.
    "It will be so loud that if we move in next door to you, your lawn will die".
    Lemmy on Motorhead

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    • TR1
      TR1
      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
      • Oct 2010
      • 9785

      #3
      MiG-35.
      sigpic

      Comment

      • MSphere
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 8983

        #4
        I have severe doubts that all Azeri Su-25s were upgraded to KM standard, if any.
        The available photos usually show their aircraft with the T-shaped dorsal antenna which is not present on the Scorpions.
        If there are some Su-25KMs, then they are not many of them in service.

        Comment

        • Y-20 Bacon
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2013
          • 2176

          #5
          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
          I have severe doubts that all Azeri Su-25s were upgraded to KM standard, if any.
          The available photos usually show their aircraft with the T-shaped dorsal antenna which is not present on the Scorpions.
          If there are some Su-25KMs, then they are not many of them in service.
          is Georgia still in a position to offer upgrades to the su-25s or did the factory lose that capability?

          Comment

          • MSphere
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 8983

            #6
            Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
            is Georgia still in a position to offer upgrades to the su-25s or did the factory lose that capability?
            http://www.tam.ge/

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            • Geo
              Geo
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2007
              • 67

              #7
              Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
              since the Argentinian one seems mostly decided.

              Azerbaijan is interesting.. growing economic energy power
              military equipment primarily: Russia, Israel, Turkey

              Enemy = Armenia, Iran

              Russia was generally pro-Armenia, but with the money Azerbaijan can pour into Russian defense industries, and growing energy interests.. good chance Russia can ditch Armenia for Azerbaijan which would be more lucrative.
              but don't count on new Sukhoi sales to Azerbaijan.. since Sukhoi is run by an Armenian.
              TF-X

              Comment

              • Tempest414
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2012
                • 975

                #8
                Well they start in a good place so moving forward I would start with ordering

                18 An-32’s of which 4 would be MP’s to give a light/medium tactical transport capability
                Start replacement of the 60 Mil-24’s with 40 TAI/AW T129 helicopter
                Start replacement of the L39’s with 25 Yak-130’s in the LIFT/ A2G role
                Replacement of SU-25’s with 50 JF-17’s In the A2G/A2A role
                Replacement of Mig-29’s with 30 Mig-35’s in the A2A/A2G role
                Reduce the Mil-17 fleet to 80
                Order 10 Mil-26’s

                Comment

                • Owlcat
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 254

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                  Enemy = Armenia, Iran
                  What haven't stopped the Caucasus's trio to ditch their hatred and work together with Iran on Syria.

                  Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                  Russia was generally pro-Armenia, but with the money Azerbaijan can pour into Russian defense industries, and growing energy interests.. good chance Russia can ditch Armenia for Azerbaijan which would be more lucrative.
                  They are doing fine selling to both so no need to ditch neither of them.

                  Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                  but don't count on new Sukhoi sales to Azerbaijan.. since Sukhoi is run by an Armenian.
                  As a result of the efforts made by persons of Armenian descent, who lead the Russian aviation industry, the negotiations with Russia on the purchase of combat aircrafts Su-27, Su-30 and MiG-31 have not produced results.
                  Someone's trolling like a sir in Azerbaijan .

                  Comment

                  • AttilaA
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 61

                    #10
                    Not aviation related but Russia started the delivery of a large package constisting of land systems to Azerbaijan, worth about $1 billion.

                    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/new...ku_idet_smerch

                    There are options on all military equipment bought, including an option for 94 more T-90. Earlier reports talked of 200 T-90, so probably around that number is considered.

                    Also from the article:
                    This is not the first major package of arms contracts between Russia and Azerbaijan. In 2010-2011. concluded and almost made ​​contracts for the supply of Azerbaijani armed forces and other security agencies of the two battalions of air defense missile systems S-300PMU-2, several batteries air defense systems "Tor-M2E", 60 transport helicopters Mi-17 and 24 attack helicopters Mi-35M for a total of nearly $ 3 billion
                    So I think the prospects of purchasing new fighters from Russia is there. Also Azerbaijan seems to be seriously interested in YAK-130, pilots of the airforce made flights with it last year.
                    Last edited by AttilaA; 30th June 2013, 18:02.

                    Comment

                    • AttilaA
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 61

                      #11
                      Earlier there were rumours about negotiations for KA-52, and recently there was this report.

                      PARIS: Russia in Ka-52 talks with CIS nations, arms agency reveals

                      http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...eveals-387378/

                      KA-52 could be a possible addition to Azerbaijani airforce in coming years.

                      Comment

                      • Freehand
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • May 2012
                        • 986

                        #12
                        I would focus on infrastructure and defensive sub-systems. Make sure all of the air bases are in good order and what not. I would also complement the S300 systems currently in use. The Hind fleet is relatively modern, so there is no need to replace those just yet. A squadron of T-129 (most likely) or Ka-52's could go along real nice with the rotary winged component(s). I believe all of the Su-25's have been upgraded, if they have not, make that a priority. I would put the MiG-29's closer to replacement than the upgraded Su-25's. Get rid of the small amount of Su-24's in service. Keeping 5-6 of any type, like that, does not make much sense.

                        Comment

                        • Viper076
                          F-16 "A Bird Of Prey"
                          • May 2013
                          • 180

                          #13
                          SU-34

                          Comment

                          • Freehand
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • May 2012
                            • 986

                            #14
                            What kind of strategic goals does Azerbaijan have? Is it just enough to keep Iran from invading, or are there other objectives?

                            Comment

                            • thobbes
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 2116

                              #15
                              I think they're probably more worried about Armenia than Iran.

                              Iran is a non-entity in an area still dominated by Russian influence.
                              "It will be so loud that if we move in next door to you, your lawn will die".
                              Lemmy on Motorhead

                              Comment

                              • AttilaA
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 61

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Freehand View Post
                                What kind of strategic goals does Azerbaijan have?
                                Karabakh, restoration of territorial integrity first and foremost.

                                Comment

                                • TR1
                                  TR1
                                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 9785

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by AttilaA View Post
                                  Karabakh, restoration of territorial integrity first and foremost.
                                  With Russia protecting Armenia though, through security guarantee, it will never happen.

                                  I think, if we look at the situation objectively, the sooner Azerbaijan shifts that goal, the better for the country.
                                  sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                    • Oct 2010
                                    • 9785

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Viper076 View Post
                                    SU-34
                                    I think more general mulch-purpose birds are a better idea for the Azeris.
                                    Su-34 is a specialized luxury for a relatively small AF (even though they are comparatively lavishly funded, dat sweet sweet oil ), not to mention they have no use for its very long range strike role.

                                    They recently took delivery of upgraded MiG-29s from Ukraine (~ two dozen IIRC). These are the logical starting point for a bigger fleet. More upgraded MiG-29s is probably the sensible solution, MiG-35 if they are feeling like splurging + if the maintenance and training footprint is not too different from legacy Fulcrums.
                                    Yak-130 also very much makes sense.

                                    I wonder what ATGM the Ka-52s will come with, if deal goes through. There is a lack of clarity what they are integrated with...

                                    Also they really need to change their MiG-29 camo, it looks horrific.
                                    Last edited by TR1; 30th June 2013, 23:50.
                                    sigpic

                                    Comment

                                    • thobbes
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2010
                                      • 2116

                                      #19
                                      I agree with TR1.


                                      As a a purely offensive system, Su-34 a great/super power playtoy.

                                      Smaller and even medium countries are better serviced by multi-role fighters. In this case MiG-29 is perfectly capable, especially upgraded to M/M2 standard.
                                      "It will be so loud that if we move in next door to you, your lawn will die".
                                      Lemmy on Motorhead

                                      Comment

                                      • AttilaA
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2011
                                        • 61

                                        #20
                                        Mig-29s were bought back in 2006-2007, but back then Azerbaijan did not had the same funds it does now, so a better choice would be new fighters from Russia, more advanced. The "upgrade" to Mig-29s by Ukraine was only minimal. I would also think along the lines of Mig-29M2, or even Su-30 series.

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