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    Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 thread

    India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) aims to integrate the Kaveri powerplant with the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Tejas fighter within the next nine months.
    Which engine would that be? Kaveri could mean more than 1 thing.

    In March, Antony told parliament that the Kaveri's development cost was Rs28.39 billion ($520 million), nearly 10 times greater than the Rs3.83 billion originally allocated.
    Somebody thought you could develop a state of the art jet engine for about 50 million dollars? Wonder what planet he lives on.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...d-2013-379684/
    Sum ergo cogito

    #2
    Does anyone have any news on progress with the SNECMA contract to produce a revised engine to power AMCA and possibly Tejas at some future point?
    Sum ergo cogito

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
      Which engine would that be? Kaveri could mean more than 1 thing.


      Somebody thought you could develop a state of the art jet engine for about 50 million dollars? Wonder what planet he lives on.

      http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...d-2013-379684/
      Same old Kaveri.

      Kaveri engine to fly futuristic unmanned aircraft
      Ajai Shukla / Bangalore Dec 26, 2012, 00:22 IST


      .......................

      The Indian USAV project is a lease of life for the Kaveri engine. Although India will import jet engines worth Rs 1,60,000 crore over the next decade (DRDO projections) none of these can be used for the USAV. The Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) prohibits its 34 signatories including every major engine manufacturing country from selling engines for unmanned systems with ranges of over 300 kilometres.

      An Indian jet engine, therefore, must power the USAV and the Kaveri is the only option. Although underpowered for fast-moving fighter aircraft, the DRDO believes the Kaveri is well suited for the USAV, which is lighter, flies slower and manoeuvres less sharply.

      Business Standard visited the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), the DRDO laboratory that is developing the Kaveri engine. It reached a key landmark last year, when a prototype Kaveri was flight-tested in Russia at the Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI). The engines performance was measured on a flying test-bed, a four-engine IL-76 transport aircraft that had one of its original engines replaced with a Kaveri.

      During this test the Kaveri did well, generating 49.2 KiloNewtons (KN) of dry thrust, marginally less than its target of 51 KN. But there was a serious shortfall in wet thrust; the Kaveri generated just 70.4 KN, well short of the targeted 81 KN.

      .........................

      GTRE has a threefold plan for perfecting the Kaveri for the USAV. First, it will remove the design flaws that were detecting during testing in Russia in 2010-11; then, after ground testing in Bangalore, the Kaveri will undergo a round of confirmatory tests in Russia; finally, it will be fitted on a Tejas fighter for flight tests.

      Meanwhile, the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), another DRDO laboratory, will develop the USAV. Four years from today, the Kaveri having proved itself on the Tejas will be mated with the USAV.

      After extensive ground testing at GTRE, the Kaveri will go back to Russia for flight-testing to ascertain that all the problems have been solved. This is essential for airworthiness certification. Finally, we will test the Kaveri in the single-engine Tejas fighter, says C P Ramnarayanan, director, GTRE.

      The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the development of the Tejas, confirms that it will provide a Tejas prototype for flying with the Kaveri. It has even nominated an aircraft the first prototype, numbered PV-1 which is currently being used for flight-testing new systems.

      (The PV-1) was originally built to support the Kaveri engine. While the engine, in its present form, would not suffice for the Tejas, a Kaveri dry engine could be used for one of the futuristic unmanned systems, says P S Subramanyam, director, ADA.

      http://www.business-standard.com/ind...rcraft/496801/
      sigpic

      Comment


        #4
        LSP-8 will fly soon, hopefully before new year.

        For the first time, LCA-PG Division's production shop team was authorized to carry out the initial Engine Ground Run (EGR) on LCA (LSP-8) aircraft by National Flight Test Centre team(NFTC) and initial EGR was carried out by Shri Pradeep C Koppal on December 12, 2012.
        http://www.hal-india.com/HAL-CONNECT...SSUE%20-46.pdf
        sigpic

        Comment


          #5
          With the advent of more and more 5th Generations Types. If, I were India I would order the majority of LCA MK2 & N-LCA. As "Advance Trainers" with a Secondary Strike Role. Which, would be perfect for the type. With something like 75/25 mix of Two Seaters vs Singles.


          If, memory serves me I remember RAF Hawks operating in a similar role during the Cold War. With the Hawks being equipped with pylons mounted with Sidewinders AAM's for Point Defense!
          F-35 Lightning II

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Twinblade View Post
            "During this test the Kaveri did well, generating 49.2 KiloNewtons (KN) of dry thrust, marginally less than its target of 51 KN. But there was a serious shortfall in wet thrust; the Kaveri generated just 70.4 KN, well short of the targeted 81 KN."

            http://www.business-standard.com/ind...rcraft/496801/
            I know nothing of jet engine design but if Kaveri dry thrust is within 3%-4% of target, why the need re-design it around the M-88?

            The fundamental flaw with power output seems to be the afterburning system (should increase thrust by about 30Kn but only increases thrust by about 20Kn).

            I don't understand why a foreign jet engine designer was not brought in to (a) sort out any problems with the engine including raising dry thrust slightly (b) redesign the afterburning system. Kaveri could have been used to power Tejas Mk1, thus lowering USAV risk considerably - it would be use a proven engine.
            Sum ergo cogito

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Scooter View Post
              With the advent of more and more 5th Generations Types. If, I were India I would order the majority of LCA MK2 & N-LCA. As "Advance Trainers" with a Secondary Strike Role. Which, would be perfect for the type. With something like 75/25 mix of Two Seaters vs Singles.


              If, memory serves me I remember RAF Hawks operating in a similar role during the Cold War. With the Hawks being equipped with pylons mounted with Sidewinders AAM's for Point Defense!
              good idea, lca can be saved by making it as a trainer. lca is exactly like ftc-2000, same size and same skill. ftc-2000 would fail as a local light fighter but they reinvent it to a trainer and then it got sold.

              Comment


                #8
                Remember the old saying if it looks right it will fly right sorry Tejas doesnt look right I feel India need to learn from it and start again and start with an engine that can knock out 12000 lbs dry thrust and 18000 + in AB and build from there with a new design

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tempest414 View Post
                  Remember the old saying if it looks right it will fly right sorry Tejas doesnt look right I feel India need to learn from it and start again and start with an engine that can knock out 12000 lbs dry thrust and 18000 + in AB and build from there with a new design

                  its too small like a baby. small nose, cant put big radar. no range.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Tejas nose is proportionately bigger compared to other small fighters. So no issue there and yes to my mind too it does not look right. The fuselage is too small and wings too big, they are yet to reach the claimed aerodynamic performance till now. But the plane's biggest problem is its delays.

                    If I were ruling India I would just inject millions onto the project and get it to pass FOC, and then make the IAF buy 150 MK1 and 350 Mk2 regardless of whether they want them or not.
                    Love Planes, Live Planes

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I actually think the Tejas is a very nice looking design and the fact that it has a big wing is a plus, not a minus, as low wing loading is always a plus in a fighter that's required to maneuver. The only real problem I see with it is its about twenty years too late.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Isn't the point of the Tejas to be a small lightweight fighter? They have Su-30's and MiG-29's to fulfill the larger fighter requirements....
                        Fox-4!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tempest414 View Post
                          Remember the old saying if it looks right it will fly right sorry Tejas doesnt look right I feel India need to learn from it and start again and start with an engine that can knock out 12000 lbs dry thrust and 18000 + in AB and build from there with a new design

                          Another saying is you need to walk before you can run... Tejas is the first step for India, and IMO not too shabby!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by quadbike View Post
                            Tejas nose is proportionately bigger compared to other small fighters. So no issue there and yes to my mind too it does not look right. The fuselage is too small and wings too big, they are yet to reach the claimed aerodynamic performance till now. But the plane's biggest problem is its delays.

                            If I were ruling India I would just inject millions onto the project and get it to pass FOC, and then make the IAF buy 150 MK1 and 350 Mk2 regardless of whether they want them or not.
                            Pumping millions alone wont solve the issue... They should just move onto the MCA and stop dragging the government along and the IAF claiming they can make LCA worthwhile...that ship sailed as soon as the MMRCA RFP/RFI was sent out.
                            Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

                            Comment


                              #15
                              IIRC Tejas has a bigger nose than JF-17 (MiG-29 sized)....soooo....
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Confucius says View Post

                                Another saying is you need to walk before you can run... Tejas is the first step for India, and IMO not too shabby!
                                Not shabby at all. I really feel with the Indians here. They have put so mouch time, effort, monny and sheer optimism in the Tjeas-programme and they keep hitting one mine after the other. Must be devasting for morale. They have deserved to have some good for a change.

                                I really hope Tejas get into active duty with IAF eventually. If not as a one for one replacement for the Bisons then at least as a homegrown hi tech weapons platform that can provide invaluable experience for future projects.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I feel as a first effort they have done well but there are more problem then fixes and I just feel that a project this far down the line should not have so many key problems and that taking the lessons learnt starting again with a new air frame
                                  and using the avionics and GE 414 much more could be done and the key is to give India a good home grown platform

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Does anyone know by how much longer Tejas 2 is vs. Tejas 1 (length, not delay in induction)?

                                    Wiki states its longer by 1 meter (13.2m + 1m)
                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas#Tejas_Mark_2

                                    However, there is this image from BR that says its only longer by 0.5 m (dated 17 Feb 11):
                                    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/...s-mk2.jpg.html
                                    MTFBWY

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      ^^Latest reports say 1 meter. Would be confirmed at Aero India 13.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                        IIRC Tejas has a bigger nose than JF-17 (MiG-29 sized)....soooo....
                                        yep, LCA radar diameter (650mm) is slightly bigger than Mig-29k radar.

                                        Comment


                                         

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