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    Naval LCA platforms begin night flying from SBTF in Goa

    May 24: The naval prototypes of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) - NP-1 (trainer) and NP-2 (fighter) - have begun their night flying activities for the first time from the Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) at INS Hansa in Goa.
    ..

    "The night trials are critical for the project. This is for the first time that both NP-1 and NP-2 are undertaking night operations from SBTF. Both have done extensive night trials from normal runways," says an official. So far both platforms have carried out four sorties with the time duration ranging from 25 to 30 minutes.

    ..

    During the April campaign at SBTF, NP-2 demonstrated the fuel jettison test successfully.

    ..

    Radar and data link too tested

    In the last campaign, preliminary evaluation of air-to-sea mode of the radar was carried out to gather data. The data link (only on naval version) evaluation was carried out with the Sea Harrier in flight. Sea Harrier also had the same data link of NLCA.

    ..

    "Other test points required to gather data at sea level were the parametric identification (PIDs) sorties with LEVCON (Leading Edge Vortex Controller) deflected to minus-30 degrees. The flutter test (vibration) points were also captured," says the official.

    Hot refueling routinely carried out in Goa

    The hot-refueling concept, widely tested in Bengaluru, was continuously been carried out in Goa on NP-2.
    This is an activity wherein the aircraft after its sortie, instead of switching off, is refueled with the engine running and pilot in the cockpit. It then immediately takes off again.

    "This is thus a game changer as the sortie productivity is enhanced. This has given two sortie worth of test point coverage in a single sortie. This is currently the only fighter aircraft in the country with this capability. We could incorporate this feature on the IAF version (Tejas) also," adds the official.

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      Cross posting from BRF..was originally posted on FB

      Naval LCA NP2 carrying out maiden night operations from the SBTF in Goa.





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        More pics..cross posting from BRF





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          sigpic

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            IAF all set for Tejas squadron induction on July 1, 2016

            Bengaluru, June 27: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is all set to commission the first squadron of home-grown Light Combat Aircraft Tejas on July 1.

            The low-key event, to be held at the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) premises, would see the first two Series Production fighters (SP-1, SP-2) being formally being inducted into the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers. A trainer from the test line (PV-5) could also join the party.
            Group Captain M Rangachari is likely to be the first Commanding Officer of the new Tejas Squadron. Both SP-1 and SP-2 would do a sortie during the induction ceremony.

            Other key players in the Tejas programme - Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) - would provide the technical and logistical support during the event.

            "We have posted seven officers, 42 air warriors and 11 NCs for the Tejas Squadron. These numbers would change after the squadron strength increases in the future," an IAF official said.

            "We have asked HAL to hand over the aircraft by June 28 itself," the official added.
            ...

            "There is a shift in the approach of IAF now. We are happy that the Tejas Squadron is being formed. It is a great day for India. We are on a mission. We are all focused," says an HAL official.

            HAL has now brought down the equipping cycle for Tejas from 32 months to eight months, which should help rolling out the production variants at a faster rate.

            The SP-3 should now have its first flight sometime in July and SP-4 should fly out by September this year. Various stages of work for SP-5 to SP-9 have begun at HAL's LCA Division. The rear fuselage assembly work for SP-9 has also started.

            Meanwhile, briefing reporters in Delhi today, the IAF officials said that the No 45 Tejas Squadron will be fully operational by 2018.

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              Tejas Mk1 trials with the Derby BVR missile
              Attached Files

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                IAF plans to put LCA Tejas in combat role by 2017

                http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/52941653.cms

                Interesting that in the article it is anticipated that Mk1-A will cost 300 crore or less a piece (roughly $US45 million or less). That would be astonishing for an advanced light fighter featuring an AESA radar.
                Sum ergo cogito

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                  Marketed price. Expect a significant discount during the early life of the project*. First customer would certainly bargain hard and win (Peru?).

                  I wonder when we will see Teja in Europe (no, this is not a provocation from me - think Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria etc...)

                  *no fighter production history, new type, new market segment, no "operational life" to quote certain manufacturer etc...
                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 28th June 2016, 23:52.

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                    The Egyptians were supposedly interested but the number of Israeli sourced equipment on the Tejas Mk1A makes me wonder how far that interest would go...Israeli AESA Elta 2052, DASH HMDS, Litening 5 LDP, Derby and Python 5 missiles, Griffin LGB and possibly Spice 250. Perhaps some of the EW equipment as well (possibly an Elta SPJ that will be externally mounted?)

                    Those nations that are not anti-Semitic and not likely to be on US embargo list (thanks to the engine) would be the potential customers. But my guess is breaking into the European market would be extremely hard, despite being nearly as cheap as buying second hand F-16s and far cheaper than Gripen Es and even C/Ds.

                    $45 million at today's exchange rates is a great price for a 4th generation light fighter. But that is the price for the IAF, it may be a little more expensive for export customers..unless the GoI feels that in order to find customers, deep discounts are warranted. Anyway, interesting times ahead, since the Modi Govt. has made it clear that they want to export defence equipment in a big way. There needs to be an organizational shift towards such a mentality- something that is sorely lacking as of today.
                    Last edited by BlackArcher; 29th June 2016, 00:19.

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                      Unless you want to tinker around with domestic procurement you have to first create production capacity that satisfies domestic demand in a time bound fashion, then ramp up with surplus capacity and launch an international sales campaign, actively promoting the product and the associated offset and support package. Competitors would naturally be Used and new F-16's, Used and new JAS-39C's, Korean F/A-50, and Chinese fighters competing in the segment.
                      Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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                        Originally posted by bring_it_on View Post
                        Unless you want to tinker around with domestic procurement you have to first create production capacity that satisfies domestic demand in a time bound fashion, then ramp up with surplus capacity and launch an international sales campaign, actively promoting the product and the associated offset and support package. Competitors would naturally be Used and new F-16's, Used and new JAS-39C's, Korean F/A-50, and Chinese fighters competing in the segment.
                        yes indeed, with the current (8 per year) and future production rates (16 per year, perhaps going up to 24) that are being forecast, HAL will be busy producing Tejas Mk1 and Mk1As for the IAF right upto 2025. If export orders do come through, HAL, the MoD and the IAF will have to figure out how to supply some of those fighters to the foreign customer. Kind of like how Rafales built for the French AF, to their specifications, are being diverted to Egypt and Qatar.

                        I was hoping to see the Tejas Mk1 at Farnborough this year, since it is a far more high profile show than the Bahrain Air Show where the Tejas Mk1 turned a corner regarding public and industry perception. But with the IAF's first squadron formation just a couple of days away, the focus seems to have been on ensuring smooth induction into service rather than marketing.

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                          Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                          The Egyptians were supposedly interested but the number of Israeli sourced equipment on the Tejas Mk1A makes me wonder how far that interest would go...Israeli AESA Elta 2052, DASH HMDS, Litening 5 LDP, Derby and Python 5 missiles, Griffin LGB and possibly Spice 250. Perhaps some of the EW equipment as well (possibly an Elta SPJ that will be externally mounted?)

                          Those nations that are not anti-Semitic and not likely to be on US embargo list (thanks to the engine) would be the potential customers.
                          Err . . . how can Arab countries be anti-semitic? They'd have to be self-hating.

                          The English language breaks down on anti-semitic, especially when Arabs are involved. It's best avoided.

                          I can't imagine any Arab country buying Tejas unless the Israeli equipment was replaced. It would also make sales to some non-Arab Muslim countries difficult.
                          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                          Justinian

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                            Originally posted by swerve View Post
                            Err . . . how can Arab countries be anti-semitic? They'd have to be self-hating.

                            The English language breaks down on anti-semitic, especially when Arabs are involved. It's best avoided.

                            I can't imagine any Arab country buying Tejas unless the Israeli equipment was replaced. It would also make sales to some non-Arab Muslim countries difficult.
                            Google "anti-Semitic" and this is what it returns


                            Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is hostility, prejudice or discrimination against Jews.
                            A person who holds such positions is called an antisemite. Antisemitism is widely considered to be a form of racism.

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                              Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                              Google "anti-Semitic" and this is what it returns
                              What is Google's source, I wonder? I think it's a word which can be used in a broader or a narrower sense. When I looked the word 'semite' in the Collins online dictionary, I got:

                              noun

                              1. a member of the group of Caucasoid peoples who speak a Semitic language, including the Jews and Arabs as well as the ancient Babylonians, Assyrians, and Phoenicians

                              2. another word for a Jew
                              Sum ergo cogito

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                                Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                                What is Google's source, I wonder? I think it's a word which can be used in a broader or a narrower sense. When I looked the word 'semite' in the Collins online dictionary, I got:

                                noun

                                1. a member of the group of Caucasoid peoples who speak a Semitic language, including the Jews and Arabs as well as the ancient Babylonians, Assyrians, and Phoenicians

                                2. another word for a Jew
                                I don't want to waste any more of my time or this forum's bandwidth on this discussion. But the fact is that the term "anti-semitic" is almost universally used to describe those who fear, hate, loathe or in general have a prejudice against Jews and Judaism. Specifically Jews. Not all people who might have descended from semitic tribes including Arabs.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                                  The Egyptians were supposedly interested but the number of Israeli sourced equipment on the Tejas Mk1A makes me wonder how far that interest would go...Israeli AESA Elta 2052, DASH HMDS, Litening 5 LDP, Derby and Python 5 missiles, Griffin LGB and possibly Spice 250. Perhaps some of the EW equipment as well (possibly an Elta SPJ that will be externally mounted?)

                                  Those nations that are not anti-Semitic and not likely to be on US embargo list (thanks to the engine) would be the potential customers. But my guess is breaking into the European market would be extremely hard, despite being nearly as cheap as buying second hand F-16s and far cheaper than Gripen Es and even C/Ds.

                                  $45 million at today's exchange rates is a great price for a 4th generation light fighter. But that is the price for the IAF, it may be a little more expensive for export customers..unless the GoI feels that in order to find customers, deep discounts are warranted. Anyway, interesting times ahead, since the Modi Govt. has made it clear that they want to export defence equipment in a big way. There needs to be an organizational shift towards such a mentality- something that is sorely lacking as of today.


                                  The recent decision from US has been authorizing the sale of weapons to Vietnam could encouraged the Tejas Mk1 for this country.

                                  So in this case the F404 engine and all those systems from Israel there are not restrictions for Vietnam.

                                  Beyond this opportunity I guess that Vietnam would have been quite interested in the long range supersonic missile Brahmos from India, besides its land version perhaps, the Vietnam could be might interested in this new air launched version for the Su 30MKI, once it could equipped the Su 30MK2 from Vietnan, in this case HAL would made this task for Vietnam.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by swerve View Post
                                    The English language breaks down on anti-semitic, especially when Arabs are involved. It's best avoided.
                                    It's also inaccurate. Arab countries don't refuse military hardware from Israel because they have a problem with Jews, but because they have a problem with Israel.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Rii View Post
                                      It's also inaccurate. Arab countries don't refuse military hardware from Israel because they have a problem with Jews, but because they have a problem with Israel.
                                      You make an extremely important point. Not all Jews are Israelis and not all Jews agree with the actions of Israel. It is not anti-Jewish to be opposed to the actions of Israel. Some Jews are. They are not anti-Jewish.
                                      Sum ergo cogito

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                                        Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                                        yes indeed, with the current (8 per year) and future production rates (16 per year, perhaps going up to 24) that are being forecast, HAL will be busy producing Tejas Mk1 and Mk1As for the IAF right upto 2025. If export orders do come through, HAL, the MoD and the IAF will have to figure out how to supply some of those fighters to the foreign customer. Kind of like how Rafales built for the French AF, to their specifications, are being diverted to Egypt and Qatar.

                                        I was hoping to see the Tejas Mk1 at Farnborough this year, since it is a far more high profile show than the Bahrain Air Show where the Tejas Mk1 turned a corner regarding public and industry perception. But with the IAF's first squadron formation just a couple of days away, the focus seems to have been on ensuring smooth induction into service rather than marketing.
                                        Yes. Stabilizing cost, delay and quality before thinking at the level of profit sounds more like what to do. The market will stay really reluctant and the incentives to stay away from HAL will certainly be numerous.
                                        On the other hands TEJA is pretty much the only plane on the range of perfs expected by ex-east European country that were the core targets for the Novi Avion. This requirement has never been fulfilled and I am on the impression that there are rooms for a Teja flying over Belgrade, Bratislava or Bucharest. Cost should be tempered down of course. And cross sharing of workshare with local aero industries should constitute a real incentive (think Nato, long term sustainability and local production of parts).

                                        An other step upward for that sympathetic project!
                                        Last edited by TomcatViP; 30th June 2016, 05:34.

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                                          Time to give the Tejas LCA its due

                                          ..

                                          But three decades after the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft went into development, there is a grudging acceptance that the fighter which will be officially inducted into the Air Force tomorrow in Bengaluru is, in many ways, world-class.

                                          While the delay in delivery cannot be justified, there have been fierce debates on why that happened. State-run Hindustan Aeronautics or HAL, which is the lead player in the Tejas project, says the air force kept shifting the goal post on what exactly it wanted from the jet. The manufacturer also says it was hit by sanctions imposed by the US after the Pokhran nuclear test in 1998, which placed crucial technology out of reach.

                                          The Air Force, for its part, has insisted there are better options available in the world market, jets built by manufacturers who have been in the business of military aviation for decades. The Tejas, they have argued in the past, will be obsolete by the time it enters Air Force squadron service.

                                          Except it isn't. Not in the least.

                                          Equipped with a modern Israeli multi-mode radar, the Elta 2032, state-of-the-art Derby air-to-air missiles to attack enemy jets, and modern laser designator and targeting pods to hit ground targets, the Tejas is, in many ways, as capable as the French-built Mirage 2000, the aircraft used by HAL as its benchmark. Every pilot that has tested the jet has sworn by the Tejas's flight control system and the ease with which it manoeuvres. Not a single Tejas fighter has been lost to an accident during flight tests during 3,000 sorties.

                                          ..

                                          Confronted by these facts, critics of the jet say the Tejas is not indigenous at all. They point out that the engine is American, its radar and weapons Israeli, its ejection seat British -all that in addition to several other imported systems and subsystems. HAL counters that leading Western designs like the French Rafale and the Swedish Gripen also have imported systems because it's simply too expensive and too time-consuming to develop components that have been perfected and are available for purchase.

                                          So has the Tejas programme added to India's engineering and scientific knowledge? It has. The fly-by-wire system gives computer-controlled inputs to charter the flight of the aircraft - and it's completely Indian. To deal with enemy jets, the Mission Computer which processes data provided by sensors like the radar is Indian. In fact, the hardware and the software of the Mission Computer has been designed around an open architecture framework which means that it can be upgraded in the future. The jet itself is constructed using Indian-made carbon fibre composites which are light-weight and ultra-strong alternatives to metal. A host of general systems dealing with everything from fuel management to steering of the nose-wheel are all made in India. A key sensor, the Tarang Radar Warning Radar, which lets the pilot know of enemy aircraft or surface-to-air missiles in the vicinity of the Tejas, is also Indian...

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