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    Originally posted by Anant View Post
    Yep embarrassing enough that the uber euro manufacturers could figure out to drill holes correctly after 9 years in service? Considering its just one of the several issues EF faced during and after induction? How could ber or "Marvellous" Euro factories run by bermensch fall to such third world lowly standards?

    LCA is indeed inferior, mainly because inferior Public relations, spicy food, tropical heat, engineers wearing chappals to work etc.

    And oh yes, I used a Greek word: et cetera (in English; /ɛtˈsɛtərə/; Latin pronunciation: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]) (rare: etceteros) (abbreviation: etc. or &c.) is a Latin expression that means "and other things", or "and so forth" or "yadi yada". It is taken directly from the Latin expression, which literally means "and the rest (of such things)" and is a calque of the Greek "καιὶτα τέρα" (kai ta tera: "and the other things"; the more usual Greek form is "και τα λοιπά" kai ta loipa: "and the remainder"). Et means "and"; cētera means "the rest".
    Sorry, I was unaware that the word uber was widely used in English.

    PS While I can see what a threat spicy food and tropical heat are to LCA, I'm mystified as to what threat engineers wearing chappals to work represent (since I don't know what chappals are).
    Last edited by Spitfire9; 15th April 2016, 15:57.
    Sum ergo cogito

    Comment


      Originally posted by Anant View Post
      Dunno, How true it would be, considering why would SAAB help in setting up line for LCA, which is basically helping LCA in becoming SAAB's Gripen's competitor.
      Depends on whether SAAB thinks it'd lose more Gripen sales to an improved Tejas than it'd gain from a share of the Tejas sales.
      Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
      Justinian

      Comment


        Naval LCA



        Comment


          Originally posted by Anant View Post
          Dunno, How true it would be, considering why would SAAB help in setting up line for LCA, which is basically helping LCA in becoming SAAB's Gripen's competitor.
          From Saab's point of view, I can understand that business is business. But from an Indian prospective, I find it hard to reconcile pride/support for your own industry and seemingly shopping around with every other country! At a time when Tejas is flying, asking for Saab's "help" is not exactly a great show of confidence in HAL.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Confucius says View Post
            From Saab's point of view, I can understand that business is business. But from an Indian prospective, I find it hard to reconcile pride/support for your own industry and seemingly shopping around with every other country! At a time when Tejas is flying, asking for Saab's "help" is not exactly a great show of confidence in HAL.
            Pride does not enable you to do anything. Being realistic can.

            Dunno, How true it would be, considering why would SAAB help in setting up line for LCA, which is basically helping LCA in becoming SAAB's Gripen's competitor.
            As for helping out on Tejas, that would be paid work, wouldn't it? I don't see Tejas Mk1 as a competitor to Gripen E. Very different aircraft. I look at it the other way round - what will be competition for Tejas Mk1A? If it turns out to cost far less than KAI F-50 and Gripen C and is not expensive to maintain, it should be very attractive as a low cost, sophisticated 4G light fighter. Will it steal sales from Gripen C? I don't see how since all production will be committed to supplying IAF for many, many years to come.

            I wonder if SAAB is hoping to build a good, long term relationship whereby it would be the preferred choice as a mentor/partner if the MCA project were given the go ahead.
            Sum ergo cogito

            Comment


              Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
              Naval LCA



              Nice art work!!

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                Originally posted by Confucius says View Post
                From Saab's point of view, I can understand that business is business. But from an Indian prospective, I find it hard to reconcile pride/support for your own industry and seemingly shopping around with every other country! At a time when Tejas is flying, asking for Saab's "help" is not exactly a great show of confidence in HAL.
                Why so? For fighter aircrafts, India is still sourcing from same countries which it found reliable over the years, namely France/UK & Russia. For all purpose IAF is still following unsaid policy of having right mix of euro and russian fighters.

                Coming to SAAB, its obvious, HAL is looking for consultancy in lean, efficient & modern manufacturing practices, so to churn out LCA MK1A 's at desired fast rate. I read somewhere HAL wanted to introduce 3d printing of components for LCA MK1A. Which if true, would be first time for HAL. Given the fact, its fairly recent, that 3 D manufacturing has been introduced, HAL has made right decision to engage consultancy. I do not know how India's "pride" come into picture, or gets affected in this case? India is employing consultancy, and is paying for it. Its simple.

                But question remains how good or honest SAAB's consultancy would be for HAL? Given its not been long, that HAL would forget its experience in engaging MBB group for consultancy in Dhruv's development.

                Comment


                  How good the result of receiving a consultancy depends on the decisionmakers. Consultants consult on what is requested from them. The principal should be really strong on the basic fundamentals of doing it, in this case aircraft design and manufacturing. A really clear and achievable target should be set beforehand and consultant inputs really taken in by the principal.

                  With the LCA programme in very advanced stage, it would not be good if consultants needed to rectify small fundamental problems, such as the landing gear vibrations.

                  Comment


                    ^ Barring your wild imagination, I don't think HAL has ever mentioned that they are hiring SAAB for resolving Landing Gear vibrations. Anyway SAAB are being invited as Technical Collabrator for MK1A /MK2 version of LCA. That is something which will happen sometime in future.The vibration problem is something HAL/ADA will have to resolve on its own, And they should be able to do, after all, they did tackle more hard difficulties during development than they are facing now. I must say that too admirably without any fatal accidents.

                    And HAL is not new in hiring consultants . What you state are something very generic in any consultancy. And every professional consultants will very upfront on getting requirements, his Role, Objectives & timelines finalized before providing his consultancy services.

                    Comment


                      some very nice images of the naval prototypes ...

                      http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/...LCA-Navy-2016/
                      ...

                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                      Comment


                        Some new information revealed on the progress being made on the Naval LCA


                        By Ajai Shukla
                        Business Standard, 11th May 16

                        At the end of thirty years of flying from Indian Navy aircraft carriers, the iconic Sea Harrier jump jet will make its ceremonial last flight on Wednesday. Readying to take its place is the naval version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which recently completed a successful flight-test campaign in Goa.

                        While the Sea Harriers operated from the INS Vikrant and INS Viraat, now both retired, the Naval Tejas will operate from the Vikrants successor, an indigenous aircraft carrier that is scheduled to be commissioned in 2018.

                        Commodore (Retired) CD Balaji, chief of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas development programme, told Business Standard that taking off and landing from a 200-metre deck has been fully established. So has hot-refuelling --- topping up the aircraft after a sortie with the engine running and the pilot in the cockpit --- which allows a rapid turnaround between sorties.


                        For the navy, it is vital to ready the Tejas for the INS Vikrant and, subsequently, the next aircraft carrier, INS Vishal. The MiG-29K will be the medium fighter on INS Vikrant, as it already is on INS Vikramaditya. The Tejas is crucial for filling in the light fighter slot.

                        Balaji reveals a committed navy is funding 40 per cent of the development cost of the Naval Tejas. The MoD has allocated Rs 3,650 crore for the naval programme.

                        The ADA chief described the flight trials in Goa between March 27 and April 25, in which two Naval Tejas prototypes flew 33 sorties from a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) -- a full-scale replica of an aircraft carrier deck. Built on land, the SBTF allows carrier deck take-offs and landings to be validated, without unduly endangering an aircraft carrier, or an aircraft prototype and pilot.

                        When taking off from an aircraft carrier, a fighter revs up its engine to the maximum, while held back by a restraining gear system (RGS). Then, the RGS is disengaged, and the fighter shoots forward, accelerating to take-off speed in just 200 metres of deck. At the end of the deck runway, a ski-jump lifts the aircraft upwards, after which it flies on its own power.

                        In December 2014, the Naval Tejas had taken off from the SBTF ski-jump after rolling 300 metres. Now, the fighter has proven it can take off from just 200 metres, even carrying two R-73 close combat missiles.

                        With this campaign, ski-jump launches are no longer a challenge. We will now explore the limits the fighter can be taken to. We will further fine-tune the control law software to take-off with higher payloads, said Balaji.


                        In aircraft carrier combat operations at sea, the Naval Tejas must take off with up to 3.5 tonnes of payload--- more fuel for longer range; and more weapons for a lethal punch. For this, the aircraft carrier would steam into the wind, ensuring a wind-over-deck speed of up to 20 knots. That would provide added lift to the aircraft, allowing higher payloads.

                        In aircraft carriers with catapult launchers, as the navys next indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vishal, could be, the catapult allows higher launch speeds and, therefore, higher payloads.

                        Similarly, fitting the Tejas Mark-2 with the more powerful General Electric F-414 engine (the current Mark -1 fighter has the smaller F-404 engine) will allow greater payloads and more ambitious mission objectives.

                        Even more challenging than taking off from a 200-metre carrier deck is to land an aircraft back on the carrier. This requires touching down precisely at the edge of the runway, aligning the approach with the help of an optical landing system and a landing control post. At landing, an arresting gear system --- including wire cables across the deck runway --- latches onto a hook on the fighters tail and rapidly decelerates it to a halt.

                        In the current campaign, the Tejas did over 60 approaches (without actually touching down) to gather data for fine-tuning the control law software. In the next campaign this month, we will do touch and go approaches to validate the software and then graduate to full landings, explains Balaji.

                        Finally, the Naval Tejas demonstrated its fuel jettison capability --- a safety feature that allows the fighter to quickly jettison on-board fuel if it encounters a problem soon after launch and must quickly return for an emergency landing on the carrier.

                        By mid-2017, we will have established on the SBTF that the Naval Tejas can be flown off an actual carrier, and we will then graduate to ship-based testing. We currently have two prototypes in testing, and will build a third by then, says a satisfied ADA chief.

                        As Sea Harriers retire, Naval LCA readies to fly off aircraft carrier next year

                        Comment


                          Huge day for the Tejas team..IAF Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha flew on the Tejas twin seat trainer yesterday along with Group captain M. Rangachari.

                          Apparently, as per Manu Pubby (defence journo), Air Chief Raha carried out simulated air to air and ground attacks, assessed radar modes and Helmet Mounted Display Sight on the Tejas.

                          ..
                          "It's a good aircraft to fly and fit to be inducted into our fleet," the air chief said on landing at the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment here.
                          IAF Chief flies Tejas trainer in Bengaluru







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                            More details on the ACM's flight on the Tejas trainer

                            IAF Chief Arup Raha takes maiden ride on Tejas

                            Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha on Tuesday took his maiden flight in India’s home grown light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas, calling it “good” for induction.

                            An ace pilot himself, Mr. Raha is the first Chief of Air Staff to fly the indigenously designed and produced Tejas in about a 30-minute sortie over Bengaluru skies around the HAL airport in Bengaluru. Group Captain M. Rangachari was with him in the twin-seater trainer aircraft.

                            “It is my first sortie in Tejas, it is a good aircraft for induction into IAF operations,” Mr. Raha was quoted as saying by the aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

                            The Air Chief Marshal carried out manoeuvres in the entire flying envelope of the aircraft, an HAL statement said, adding he carried out simulated air to air and air to ground attacks.

                            He also assessed the advanced modes of the radar and Helmet Mounted Display Sight (HMDs).


                            HAL said Mr. Raha appreciated the flying qualities of the aircraft and congratulated the entire team of HAL and others involved in getting the LCA programme to this stage.
                            ..

                            During the sortie, the Mr. Raha checked for himself the take off, climb performances and agility of the aircraft by carrying out aerobatic manoeuvres, a defence release said.

                            This was also an opportunity to see the integration of avionics, simulated weapon integration and to get a feel of operational capability during the flight, it said.


                            The series production of the Tejas aircraft has already commenced at HAL Bengaluru and the first squadron of the LCA was expected to be formed by July 2016, HAL said.

                            The Air Chief also inaugurated LCA Painting hangar at HAL’s LCA Tejas Division, and took stock of HTT-40 (Basic Trainer) which was parked on the tarmac besides visiting LCA production line and other facilities.
                            ..

                            Comment


                              Video of the Air Chief Marshal's flight in the Tejas trainer. The first video of the trainer in flight that I can recall.

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=iPRNfroGYy8

                              ACM Raha mentions and it is confirmed by telemetry on the ground (so this was an instrumented aircraft) after the flight that they crossed 4.5G without reheat. And he could have pulled more if he wanted.

                              Comment


                                Elta Systems will supply the radar for all future versions of India's Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), after the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) subsidiary was selected by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

                                The company's ELM-2032 fire-control radar is installed on prototypes of the Indian-developed fighter, and deliveries will continue as series production starts. According to Elta, it also has been chosen as sole supplier for additional future versions of the Tejas; Israeli sources suggest this could involve using its active electronically scanned array ELM-2052 sensor. They suggest that strong ties between HAL and IAI could see additional Israeli equipment installed on the fighter.


                                India's air force has announced plans to order 80 more LCA in an improved Mk1A configuration, following an earlier order for 40 Tejas jets.
                                Elta cements radar status on Tejas fighter

                                Comment


                                  What about the two platform requirement? Was this condition definitively ditched by the Israelis?

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                    What about the two platform requirement? Was this condition definitively ditched by the Israelis?
                                    Meaning the supposed requirement to have it on the Jaguar and the Tejas?

                                    Comment


                                      Yes (in order to get the 2052)

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                        Yes (in order to get the 2052)
                                        I guess an order for 80 fighters plus the possibility of more follow-on orders is lucrative enough for them to want to sell the AESA 2052.

                                        Comment


                                          Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha on Tuesday took his maiden flight in India’s home grown light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas, calling it “good” for induction.
                                          It's refreshing to see the IAF finally showing some love for their indigenous fighter program. Good on HAL for pushing through the pain barrier and now being able to propose both a land and a carrier version.

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