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    #21
    Originally posted by killerbean View Post
    yep, LCA radar diameter (650mm) is slightly bigger than Mig-29k radar.
    actually i do think indians have skill to make lca better fighter than mig29

    Comment


      #22
      ^^^ LCA is smallest fighter out there and Mig29 is pretty much medium weight fighter if you believe in Lo-Med-Hi terminology, like IAF does. Its roles will be point defence, escorting and also be multirole if it is needed for other things and NOT competing with Mig29.

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by Corrosion View Post
        ^^^ LCA is smallest fighter out there and Mig29 is pretty much medium weight fighter if you believe in Lo-Med-Hi terminology, like IAF does. Its roles will be point defence, escorting and also be multirole if it is needed for other things and NOT competing with Mig29.
        mig29 is of course much heavier than lca but its still point defense fighter. mig29 engines use lots of gas and the airplane has a small gas capacity and a very draggy airframe so it suffer in its range. range of mig29 and lca is comparable actually but lca has smaller rcs values.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Tigershark View Post
          actually i do think indians have skill to make lca better fighter than mig29
          I don't think that Tejas will be overall better fighter than new MiG-29K/KUB/M2 and MiG-35.
          MiG has much more experience in building fighter aircrafts than Indian.
          Both fighter will belong to the same generation, but the weapons, avionics and performance together will make a difference.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by Confucius says View Post
            Another saying is you need to walk before you can run... Tejas is the first step for India, and IMO not too shabby!
            First step? What about Marut & Ajeet? What about the decades of building MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-27 & Jaguar under licence, & developing & fitting upgrades?

            The problem with Tejas is that India has failed to build sensibly on that huge basis of experience. There's been no systematic capture & preservation of experience & knowledge. Instead of incrementally building on previous achievements, India threw away painfully & expensively gained knowledge & skills, then tried to do everything at once with Tejas.
            Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
            Justinian

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              #26
              True.

              It was awfully ambitious to do a new, completely-from-scratch airframe, engine, and avionics programme without a systematic build-up, or seamless transition from a previous programme.

              But, on the topic of the Tejas, let's not lose sight of the picture. They have prototypes and development aircraft flying, and have made important decisions to get top foreign companies involved in the problematic or lagging areas.
              India must perservere, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

              Comment


                #27
                Agreed.

                India now has a great deal of knowledge & skills, built up through the Tejas project & other developments such as the Jaguar Darin upgrades, & it looks as if some of the lessons of the past may have been learned, & now there is an attempt to keep what's been learned & build on it. I believe that's the right way to go.
                Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                Justinian

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                  #28
                  Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                  Does anyone have any news on progress with the SNECMA contract to produce a revised engine to power AMCA and possibly Tejas at some future point?
                  R.I.P Snecma-Kaveri.

                  http://www.business-standard.com/ind...artner/497740/

                  DefenceMin goes global in search for Kaveri partner
                  The process for selecting a partner that has these technologies is underway
                  Ajai Shukla / Bangalore Jan 04, 2013, 00:43 IST

                  The Ministry of Defence (MoD) will no longer ask French aircraft engine builder Snecma to help it in resurrecting the indigenous Kaveri jet engine, which has reached a dead end in development.

                  Instead, major global aero engine manufacturers will compete in a global tender to partner the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) the Bangalore-based DRDO engine laboratory in refining the Kaveri engine to the level where it can power the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), an indigenous, fifth-generation fighter that is on the MoDs long-term horizon.


                  We are abandoning the plan for co-development with Snecma. We still need an overseas partner. But it will not be Snecma on a single-vendor basis. We will select our partner through competitive bidding, says Dr CP Ramnarayanan, director, GTRE.
                  Business Standard, on a visit to GTRE in Bangalore, was briefed that the Kaveri still delivered significantly less power than what a modern fighter requires. In flight-testing last year at the Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI) in Russia, the Kaveris maximum thrust (termed wet thrust") was measured at 70.4 KiloNewtons (KN). High-performance fighters like the Tejas or the AMCA need engines that generate at least 90 KN of thrust.

                  To develop a more powerful Kaveri engine quickly and to become self-reliant in engine design, we need a foreign partner which can bring in core technologies. Otherwise the next cycle of engine development could take another 15-20 years, admits Ramnarayan, frankly.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #29
                    How did Mr. Ajay Shukla reach the conclusion AMCA will need engines with at least 90KN Thrust, when its design is not finalized yet.

                    ADA should design AMCA around something they have and not something GTRE tend to achieve, which they might never achieve.
                    Last edited by Corrosion; 6th January 2013, 11:26.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by Corrosion View Post
                      How did Mr. Ajay Shukla reach the conclusion AMCA will need engines with at least 90KN Thrust, when its design is not finalized yet.

                      ADA should design AMCA around something they have and not something GTRE tend to achieve, which they might never achieve.
                      It isn't his conclusion, multiple reports in the past have stated so.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #31
                        bigger engine..

                        why not just go for a wider fan on the Kaveri? and you got 90kN or even more? Especially in a bigger jet as the AMCA?

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by Twinblade View Post
                          The Ministry of Defence (MoD) will no longer ask French aircraft engine builder Snecma to help it in resurrecting the indigenous Kaveri jet engine, which has reached a dead end in development.
                          IIRC Snecma was selected to be the partner to "rescue" the Kaveri project years ago. Why did it take years to decide this partnership would not work?

                          To develop a more powerful Kaveri engine quickly and to become self-reliant in engine design, we need a foreign partner which can bring in core technologies. Otherwise the next cycle of engine development could take another 15-20 years, admits Ramnarayan, frankly.
                          If Snecma would not transfer key technologies required for India to become self reliant in engine design, was the problem that Snecma refused to transfer critical technology or was it that the price asked was too high? If the problem was not price, will any other engine manufacturer be prepared to transfer the key technologies required?
                          Sum ergo cogito

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                            Why did it take years to decide this partnership would not work?
                            Money and rights to the finished product. GE is making a push as well.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Perhaps Snecma also wanted a guarantee from Indian govt that it would purchase a minimum number of kaveri-snecma engine when completed. And the minimum number could not be agreed upon.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Will the Mk2 have all these things the author mentions or is he blowing smoke?

                                http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/...hers-pace.html
                                But what a fool believes, he sees
                                No wise man has the power to reason away

                                -The Doobie Brothers

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Victor View Post
                                  Will the Mk2 have all these things the author mentions or is he blowing smoke?

                                  http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/...hers-pace.html
                                  There are comments dating from July 2011 below the article. Makes me wonder what year the following refers to:

                                  "By the years end, the IAF is expected to select the foreign vendor for supplying the integrated fire-control system (including an infra-red search-and-track sensor, or IRST, integrated with an AESA-based multi-mode radar), and a frameless canopy actuation system. The former, which will, in essence, dictate the Tejas Mk2s combat capabilities, is likely to keenly contested by vendors from the US, France, Israel and Italy."

                                  Is it still intended to use a foreign sourced AESA?
                                  Sum ergo cogito

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    The above blog is owned by Prasun Sengupta - the biggest BS'er when it comes to anything Indian defence. He just makes stuff up, plain and simple.
                                    Only thing worthwhile in his blogs are the copy pasted brochures and PR material, and even there, he uses these to spin wild yarns.

                                    There is no plan to import an AESA for the Tejas. The plan was and is, to have a partner work with LRDE (India's radar development specialist) to develop Tx/Rx modules which would be integrated with the radar back end developed by LRDE (receiver, exciter, processor) and also assist with the overall design & development of the radar (including trials and certification). That way, India would have its own AESA fire control radar, while doing what it could to minimize developmental challenges and delays. Relying on a proven partner for Tx/Rx modules (for the initial development) while transitioning to a local/codeveloped source, would be the prudent method.

                                    Coming to the IRST, DRDO has significant experience with FLIR and image processing, so developing an IRST is not beyond them. They have integrated FLIRs which are in production for various land systems, naval platforms and airborne platforms including UAVs. So leveraging that experience to build an IRST is possible (though the requirements will be different)

                                    Albeit with assistance for the detector arrays, since these require significant capital expenditure and will delay any project if developed abinitio.

                                    However, there is no firm statement from the developers noting that an IRST is indeed on the MK2. The need of the day, from the IAF perspective is to get the basics (including the radar and weaponization) completed.
                                    This CAD image: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I40Q_WKDw8...as+LCA+Mk2.jpg

                                    Shows for instance, the radar rack on the LCA MK2- but it does not show an IRST
                                    Last edited by Teer; 12th January 2013, 23:07.

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by Teer View Post

                                      Coming to the IRST, DRDO has significant experience with FLIR and image processing, so developing an IRST is not beyond them. They have integrated FLIRs which are in production for various land systems, naval platforms and airborne platforms including UAVs. So leveraging that experience to build an IRST is possible (though the requirements will be different)

                                      Albeit with assistance for the detector arrays, since these require significant capital expenditure and will delay any project if developed abinitio.
                                      I was looking up on IRST program of IRDE some time back. The trail goes cold past 2007 and the last mention of IRST I found was in a paper on IRST tracking algorithms and sensor fusion by NAL in 2009. I believe there are no plans as of now, or they have been abandoned.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Teer View Post
                                        The above blog is owned by Prasun Sengupta - the biggest BS'er when it comes to anything Indian defence. He just makes stuff up, plain and simple.
                                        Originally posted by Teer View Post
                                        There is no plan to import an AESA for the Tejas. The plan was and is, to have a partner work with LRDE (India's radar development specialist) to develop Tx/Rx modules which would be integrated with the radar back end developed by LRDE (receiver, exciter, processor) and also assist with the overall design & development of the radar (including trials and certification). That way, India would have its own AESA fire control radar, while doing what it could to minimize developmental challenges and delays. Relying on a proven partner for Tx/Rx modules (for the initial development) while transitioning to a local/codeveloped source, would be the prudent method.
                                        So is technology for Tx/Rx module development/production the key capability that is lacking domestically? It sounds like the other things you mention could be done by LRDE but teaming with a foreign partner reduces the risk of delay. When does the AESA need to be ready to fit in with the Mk2 development schedule? Has a partner been lined up yet?
                                        Sum ergo cogito

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          What about the claims of frameless canopy, MAWS, 1 meter extension, etc? I thought the Mk2 would have a 0.5m plug, where is the 1m plug info coming from?
                                          But what a fool believes, he sees
                                          No wise man has the power to reason away

                                          -The Doobie Brothers

                                          Comment


                                           

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