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Japan Self-Defense Forces - News & Discussion - Season 1

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    Right! if Japan has come to the conclusion that it can't go it alone with the next fighter project, does that automatically mean they are heading to LM for a Japanese F22?

    Isn't that a bit linear?

    Comment


      I wonder if that ends UK involvement? what does that Turkish guy have to say? lol.

      yeah LM is likely. but I feel it might be more towards an F-35 variant..

      but who knows, in the past some other foreign countries have worked with US companies on losing or unused designs.
      Spain and Principe de asturias comes to mind.

      Here's hoping they look at Northrop for the YF-23 or Boink for the X-32. I do recall one of their F-3 concepts, it was 23DMU or 24DMU, that looked like a smaller YF-23

      Comment


        It's all hot air at the moment and I think the talk of going to LM is partly driven by the help they received with the F2, the fact they wanted the F22, the fact they bought the F35 etc.

        The UK/Japan situation will be slightly less murky when the Future air strategy gets published. The main problem with working with Japan is purely the tendency for them to fall back on US involvement. That said, the F2 was pursued despite the fact it would have been cheaper/easier to buy American.

        I can't see the UK government working with Turkey to produce a fighter if only because the needs and expectations are different.

        Comment


          A new, more detailed RFI has been sent to London and Washington for help with the F3:

          http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...n-designs.html

          Is London's inclusion just a nod towards burgeoning defence ties, or are they actually interested in what BAE etc have to offer?

          Comment


            There has been an increase in the level of their cooperation with London so it makes some sense for them to include BAE in the mix although if this path is pursued this will likely be Lockheed/Boeing's to lose given the NatSec ties between the US and Japan.
            Old radar types never die; they just phased array

            Comment


              Let's say Japan wanted a J-20 counter. Would it opt for something more compact, say in 20,000 kg class, or go head to head in a 30,000 kg class?

              As interesting as a scaled down YF-23 using twin F414 sounds, I have a suspicion Japan is going for something F-22A comparable.
              Go Huskers!

              Comment


                A new, more detailed RFI has been sent to London and Washington for help with the F3:

                http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...n-designs.html

                Is London's inclusion just a nod towards burgeoning defence ties, or are they actually interested in what BAE etc have to offer?
                Hmmmm, that looks suspiciously like "we are going to buy more F-35As, lets send a memo to Boeing and BAE just to maintain LM on its toes".

                Cheers
                sigpic

                Comment


                  lets send a memo to Boeing and BAE just to maintain LM on its toes".
                  Quite possibly. I am not sure co-developing an aircraft is in Japan's best interest. These deals are extremely tricky, and usually prolong the development timelines given the politics of each nation. You then also end up with a situation where no partner agrees to work-share continent on a fixed number of aircraft purchased allowing them to delay or defer purchase but yet still reap the rewards of industrial partnership like what is happening with the JSF. It would be best if they seek consultation or even a design partner from either US or UK but take the lead in funding the project and absorb majority of the industrial work within their industry. Lockheed has in the past acknowledged working on an F-35 derivative as a lower risk US Navy NGF proposal so perhaps they can offer something similar given that the US Navy has moved its own plans for the FA-XX to the right.
                  Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                  Comment


                    I would say that the potential shared ground for the UK and Japan is fairly obvious- timelines, operational need and technical abilities dovetail quite nicely. I don't think the UK will repeat the Eurofighter experience with France/Germany etc, the Turkish fighter is not what the UK will want or need and that leaves us with a joint project with the US.

                    The latter is undesirable because it is likely that we will be involved in producing F35s for over a generation and the chance of any sovereign design work is slim on a future US led F22/Typhoon replacement project.

                    As to Japan not wanting to upset the US with a UK/Japanese project: the F22 was denied them, so they bought the F35 (and will likely do so again) without any resistance. That is an established procurement route that will be ongoing for decades. Why should they buy more US equipment than that? Is Japan a US colony?

                    Comment


                      As to Japan not wanting to upset the US with a UK/Japanese project: the F22 was denied them, so they bought the F35 (and will likely do so again) without any resistance. That is an established procurement route that will be ongoing for decades. Why should they buy more US equipment than that? Is Japan a US colony?
                      I don't think it would be because they do not want to upset the US. Their is a treaty between the two nations and they already cooperate on some very vital national-security and defense projects. They also have a history of closely working with these very same OEMs on a host of programs (F-15J, F-2, F-35 etc etc) and past relationships do matter. Then there is also a matter of experience of working on advanced systems which at least in the case of Lockheed, is significantly greater than the competition.
                      Last edited by bring_it_on; 13th March 2018, 13:59.
                      Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                      Comment


                        Japan & the USA co-operate on many defence projects, but Japan also co-operates to a lesser degree with other countries. It's very interested in the Meteor missile for, example, & is working with the UK on a possible development of it with a Japanese seeker. It's put British gas turbines in its warships, bought radar technology from Thales, & so on.

                        But Sintra could be right, & it's a Korean-style "remind the Yanks that there are alternatives so they don't try to rip us off".
                        Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                        Justinian

                        Comment


                          So, the LM proposal is a hybrid of the F22 and F35 but that is a new aircraft.

                          If you take the 1980s design of the F22 and put the 1990s F35 bits into it then how is that an aircraft that sustains Japanese industry for the next half century?

                          The aircraft has to be a new design with new technology surely?

                          I have no expectation that BAE are going to offer a Typhoon derivative or that Boeing are going to offer the SH in any form.

                          Comment


                            The US Air Force wants to receive F / A-XX, but the Japanese should pay for its development

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                            Comment


                              (transplanted here)

                              the point is that the F-22 isn't produced anymore anywhere. Taking the airframe as a base to customize a fighter specific to Japan needs will de-facto not impair their own industry.
                              Fielding the 22 as the source airframe could be a guarantee to leave aside a lot of the inherent cost of a new design (think airframe, stealth. weapon integration...) while sticking to the expectations of Japan in term of greater range. Then, Japanese designed engines and systems can be fielded etc.. This might even include the UK industry.

                              Think Kfir and Cheetahs.

                              Comment


                                put the 1990s F35 bits into it
                                The only thing in the F-35 from the 1990's is the "idea" of an F-35".

                                Everything, especially the avionics, in the F-35 is in a constant state of development/improvement. It just got new CPUs with Block 3i, will get newer ones in Block 4.1 (to increase capacity 4x), got new radar modules in 3i (and again is due for newer ones), getting a new EOTS, EODAS, etc.
                                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                Comment


                                  Fair point. But if you take average point of 80s F22 and naughties F35, thats still 90s

                                  Comment


                                    FlightGlobal article on the reuters story:

                                    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...er-jet-447911/

                                    Comment


                                      Sunday, 22 July 2018:
                                      B-747 x 2.
                                      JASDF, based at Chitose AB, Hokkaidou.

                                      VIP planes for Emperor and Prime Minister.
                                      Open to public before they retire during this fiscal year.

                                      25 years old.

                                      Two successors are B-777.
                                      One planned to arrive at Chitose AB, in late August, after flight tests outside Japan.
                                      Another planned to arrive in December.

                                      https://www3.nhk.or.jp/sapporo-news/...2/0001473.html
                                      Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                                      http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                                      Comment


                                        Thursday, 23 August 2018:
                                        F-15.
                                        5th Koukuudan, JASDF, based at Nyuutabaru AB, Miyazaki Prefecture.

                                        JASDF first fighter female pilot.
                                        Second Lieutenant Matsushima Misa (26).
                                        Height 1.59 m.

                                        Grew up at Yokohama City.
                                        As primary school student, inspired by movie Top Gun.
                                        Graduated defense university, and trained as transport pilot.

                                        23 August, Nyuutabaru AB, completed F-15 training course, and received certificate.
                                        Five other male pilots completed same course.

                                        24 August, Nyuutabaru AB, began duty.

                                        JASDF now training three other fighter female pilots.

                                        https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2...-soci.view-000
                                        https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2...037-asahi-soci
                                        https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videon...00032-ann-soci
                                        https://www3.nhk.or.jp/lnews/miyazak...060001627.html
                                        Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                                        http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                                        Comment


                                          I wonder, how many JASDF's F-15 already got to Kai Standard ? and will they equip AESA to their fleet.

                                          Comment


                                           

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