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  • quadbike
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Quadbike Indian Air Force Thread Part 18

    US trying to sell the F-35 to India

    November 21, 2011 (by Jason Hodgkiss) - As reported in both mainstream and aviation focused media, that the US government has been pushing the 5th Gen Fighter the F-35 to the Indian Air Force. This is after recent success with the C-17 and the 737 based P-8I been sold to India.

    With India rejecting older generation U.S. aircraft -- the Lockheed's "Block 70" F-16 and the Boeing F-18 Hornet (including the Super Hornet) with New Delhi shortlisting European defence firms Dassault and Eurofighter for the contract for 126 jet fighters.

    Despite, India having embarked on the path to co-develop its own 5th-Gen fighter, based on the Russian Sukhoi T-50 prototype, with New Delhi and Moscow inking a $295-million preliminary design contract (PDC) last December.

    In a nine-page Pentagon report said the US Defense Department was continually looking for ways to expand defence cooperation with India, including joint development of arms as the military-to-military relationship matures.
    Love Planes, Live Planes
  • Spitfire9
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #2
    Originally posted by quadbike View Post
    I don't understand why they even try - with MMRCA selection soon to be announced, FGFA already selected, AMCA. F-35 brings no local assembly or TOT and nobody knows what it will cost.
    Sum ergo cogito

    Comment

    • BlackArcher
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Looks like the IA is trying its best to get its own aviation corps up and running with aviation assets for each of its Corps !

      This could mean increased orders for the Rudra attack helis and maybe even more LCH gunships..

      link to article

      New Delhi: The Indian Air Force may crib all it wants, but the Army is pressing on regardless - with its plans to have its own air force, albeit a 'mini' one. Fighter jets may not be on its wish-list, but the 1.13-million strong force wants everything else, from attack helicopters to fixed-wing aircraft.

      Army's long-term plans include a squadron each of attack/armed, reconnaissance/observation and tactical battle-support copters for each of its 13 corps. The three 'strike' corps, with HQs at Mathura (1 Corps), Ambala (2 Corps) and Bhopal (21 Corps) will get more 'air assets' in keeping with their primary offensive role, say sources.

      To top it off, each of Army's six regional or operational commands will at least get 'a flight' of five fixed-wing aircraft for tactical airlift of troops and equipment. "Army Aviation Corps, which is observing its 25th anniversary this month and operates around 250 light helicopters, has plans till the end of the 14th Plan (2022-27)," said a source.

      ...

      Comment

      • RayR
        Registered User

        #4
        Cut down mmrca to half! Buy F 35!
        PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
        Have a good one..

        Comment

        • coldfire2005
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          DRDO in talks with SNECMA on JV of Kaveri Engine, IAF clears engine specs

          Tejas lands in Goa for Weapons trials

          And some news regarding Tejas :diablo:

          Comment

          • Witcha
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
            I don't understand why they even try - with MMRCA selection soon to be announced, FGFA already selected, AMCA. F-35 brings no local assembly or TOT and nobody knows what it will cost.
            Actually, local assemby and some TOT has been granted to some of the partners(like the UK). Basically the more funding and orders you contribute to the project, the more you get. India stood to get a fair bit bit had it committed to the programme.

            Some have argued that the MMRCA circus was pointless when we can just buy a fifth-generation medium fighter that will join us in nearly the same timeframe.

            Well, if AMCA gets delayed some 10-15 years down the line we may see an F-MRCA between the F-35, the Silent Eagle and whatever South Korea manages to put on the table.

            Comment

            • Witcha
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #7
              Still in talks?

              At this rate the AMCA won't even fly before 2017.

              Comment

              • Spitfire9
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                Actually, local assemby and some TOT has been granted to some of the partners(like the UK). Basically the more funding and orders you contribute to the project, the more you get. India stood to get a fair bit bit had it committed to the programme.

                Some have argued that the MMRCA circus was pointless when we can just buy a fifth-generation medium fighter that will join us in nearly the same timeframe.

                Well, if AMCA gets delayed some 10-15 years down the line we may see an F-MRCA between the F-35, the Silent Eagle and whatever South Korea manages to put on the table.
                TOT - don't make me laugh. The Brits had an admiral stand up in the USA Congress and threaten to pull out of F-35 because of US refusal to co-operate on TOT. And Britain is the only Tier 1 partner, building more or less the rear half of the aircraft, so what hope would India have of getting TOT?

                By the way, I believe that Italy is to be the second F-35 line, not the UK.
                Sum ergo cogito

                Comment

                • Witcha
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                  TOT - don't make me laugh. The Brits had an admiral stand up in the USA Congress and threaten to pull out of F-35 because of US refusal to co-operate on TOT. And Britain is the only Tier 1 partner, building more or less the rear half of the aircraft, so what hope would India have of getting TOT?

                  By the way, I believe that Italy is to be the second F-35 line, not the UK.
                  Didn't the UK eventually get what they wanted(besides, of course, the source codes that have been denied to everyone)?

                  With close to 200 potential orders(the largest outside of the US itself) plus more from the Indian Navy I daresay they'd be willing to accommodate an Indian assembly line.

                  Comment

                  • Sintra
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                    Didn't the UK eventually get what they wanted(besides, of course, the source codes that have been denied to everyone)?
                    Like two, probably three, F-35Bs?

                    Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                    With close to 200 potential orders(the largest outside of the US itself) plus more from the Indian Navy I daresay they'd be willing to accommodate an Indian assembly line.
                    Well, depends on what you call an assembly line, the Italian and the (proposed) Japanese line will assemble kits made in the USA, if thats the idea, it might be possible.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • quadbike
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #11
                      If India is getting ToT from FGFA & MRCA, no problem in buying pure capability in F 35 & U.S Alliance.
                      Love Planes, Live Planes

                      Comment

                      • i.e.
                        Senior Member

                        #12
                        Originally posted by quadbike View Post
                        If India is getting ToT from FGFA & MRCA, no problem in buying pure capability in F 35 & U.S Alliance.
                        I just have to love the fact that people actaully hold the view that F35 is essentially an implicit way to bribe one's way onto U.S. alliance.
                        how much worth is in an alliance that is actually brought with money?
                        basic stuff like, honor, sovereignty, moral strength, self reliance, you know, things that makes up the self-respect of a country, all that gone to the toilet.


                        OT. carryon .

                        Comment

                        • Witcha
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          I wouldn't mind the F-35 as a plain friendly FMS deal, no political allusions involved. Just a capability addition with just the added benefit of improving strategic relations with the US and other JSF partners.

                          Comment

                          • i.e.
                            Senior Member

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                            I wouldn't mind the F-35 as a plain friendly FMS deal, no political allusions involved. Just a capability addition with just the added benefit of improving strategic relations with the US and other JSF partners.
                            Hey, some people actully goes out their way to argue for an independent foreign policy, even if they recognized the fact that their country have no way to make all their weapons.

                            When "buying weapons improves strategic relations with the US and other JSF partners" becomes actually real, I would question how strong and real are these benefits.

                            when some one said to you, if you give me $100 to buy this broomstick and we will be friends after you give me $100 for this broomstick. because we all have the same broomstick so we would be friends, and we could help you beat another guy with the broomstick.

                            how real would you think that friendship is?
                            or how useful is that broomstick anyways. O_o
                            Last edited by i.e.; 23rd November 2011, 16:32.

                            Comment

                            • Boom
                              Under a banyan tree

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                              Well, depends on what you call an assembly line, the Italian and the (proposed) Japanese line will assemble kits made in the USA, if thats the idea, it might be possible.
                              what about the turks ? weren't they supposed to get a line or is that whole thing scrapped for political problems ?
                              HAL - one step ahead of IBM

                              Comment

                              • swerve
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                #16
                                IIRC the Turks were interested in an assembly line, but seem to have dropped the idea.

                                Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                                Actually, local assemby and some TOT has been granted to some of the partners(like the UK). Basically the more funding and orders you contribute to the project, the more you get.
                                Some confusion here. The partners are contributing technology to balance what they get. They had to bid for work designing and making parts. There was no work share agreement like that with Eurofighter. Paying part of the development cost got you the right to bid, it didn't guarantee work. The UK actually has more work than either its share of development costs or its expected order.

                                One partner, Italy, has chosen to set up an assembly line (but hasn't done it yet), & that line will be just that - assembly. It will put together kits made of parts from the USA & the other partners, and the same Italian-made parts as will be in all the F-35s assembled in the USA. The Italians are hoping to supply some other partners, e.g. Turkey & the Netherlands, with Italian-assembled aircraft, but that's only a possibility, not something which has been decided.
                                Last edited by swerve; 23rd November 2011, 17:54.
                                Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                Justinian

                                Comment

                                • JSR
                                  JSR
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by quadbike View Post
                                  If India is getting ToT from FGFA & MRCA, no problem in buying pure capability in F 35 & U.S Alliance.
                                  Well if Repulican like John McCain got in 2008 or in future
                                  YOu wont be discussing MMRCA/F-35 or any alliance.

                                  Comment

                                  • J-20 Hotdog
                                    Senior Member

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by JSR View Post
                                    Well if Repulican like John McCain got in 2008 or in future
                                    YOu wont be discussing MMRCA/F-35 or any alliance.
                                    The next President won't be McCain, just normal Cain.
                                    and when he gets in, the US will offer a free slice of Pizza for every batch of F-35 orders.

                                    and no, no ToT of Pizza to the Indians.

                                    Comment

                                    • quadbike
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by JSR View Post
                                      Well if Repulican like John McCain got in 2008 or in future
                                      YOu wont be discussing MMRCA/F-35 or any alliance.
                                      All the republican front runners have an Alliance with India as part of their foreign policy piece.

                                      As for i.e talking about being neutral we will be as long as our great neighbour to the east stop supporting Pakistan.

                                      We no longer have a Soviet Union to counter the Sino-Pakistani Nexus, as we had in the past, in that case an Alliance with America is needed in the long term.
                                      Love Planes, Live Planes

                                      Comment

                                      • Rii
                                        Rii
                                        Senior Member

                                        #20
                                        Umm, don't we already have an F-35 thread?

                                        Comment

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