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Bulgaria, Turkey, Romania and Croatia to buy jets together?

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  • Argo
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2006
    • 116

    Bulgaria, Turkey, Romania and Croatia to buy jets together?

    http://paper.standartnews.com/en/art...&article=36412

    Bulgaria may team up with Turkey, Romania and Croatia in buying modern jet fighters. If the relevant authorities reach consensus we may share the new fighters and have common training bases for pilots and technical personnel, PM Boyko Borisov commented
    How would that work? And which jet would it be? I'm guessing probably used F-16s but what would Turkey want with used F-16s? Unless it's Turkey selling their F-16s to Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia?
    George Costanza: It became very clear to me sitting out there today that every decision I've made in my entire life has been wrong. My life is the complete opposite of everything I want it to be. Every instinct I have, in every aspect of life, be it something to wear, something to eat - it's all been wrong.
  • TooCool_12f
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2009
    • 3321

    #2
    Something curious about that statement, while Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia have financial difficulties to reequip their air forces, I don't see what Turkey would do with them..

    Possibly the deal he talks about would involve ex-turkish aircraft sold to these three

    now, "sharing aircraft" seems also strange as such. The most I'd see between them is joining for pilot a single training structure (as their air forces are rather small, it may be too costly to have a whole structure for a handful of pilots they'll have to train) and, eventually, one big maintainance site... yet, as there's serbia in the middle fo these three, bringing aircraft over it for "maintainance" may proove quite complicated in the end too

    Comment

    • Fedaykin
      Fueled by Tea
      • Dec 2005
      • 5290

      #3
      If they are thinking of following that format for procurement it most certainly wont be for used jets.

      By going to the market together with a joint procurement working from the same specification they can increase the strength of their hand and reduce costs.

      In many ways similar to the deal of the century when Belgium, Denmark, Holland and Norway procured the F16. By procuring together they would benefit from economies of scale and a stronger negotiating hand with the manufacturers who are going after a far larger more attractive deal.

      For Croatia and Romania who would struggle to purchase a new high end fighter on their own it is a good idea. They also benefit from shared logistics and training.
      Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

      Comment

      • Argo
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2006
        • 116

        #4
        Originally posted by Fedaykin View Post
        If they are thinking of following that format for procurement it most certainly wont be for used jets.
        Maybe... but I find the mentioning of Turkey suspicious that it would be ex-turkish F-16s.

        Because, as of now, Turkey is committed to buying F-35s and there is no chance in hell either of the three smaller states could afford them(buying together or alone), even if given free. So I see no other reason to mention Turkey as part of the deal unless they are the ones supplying the jets.
        George Costanza: It became very clear to me sitting out there today that every decision I've made in my entire life has been wrong. My life is the complete opposite of everything I want it to be. Every instinct I have, in every aspect of life, be it something to wear, something to eat - it's all been wrong.

        Comment

        • swerve
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2005
          • 13610

          #5
          Bulgaria, Croatia & Romania could benefit from a joint purchase, as with the already mentioned F-16 consortium purchase of the 1970s, but Turkey doesn't fit, unless it's either
          1) Selling secondhand F-16s to the others, which would be surprising. Turkey recently bought a new batch of F-16s, & has upgraded F-4s to keep them useful. These are not what you do when you have spare F-16s. I don't see Turkish F-35s arriving in time to free up THK F-16s for when the others need new aircraft.

          2) Proposing to provide support for F-16s (new or secondhand) bought by the others. IMO, this is most likely. It could be a Turkish proposal, under which the other states buy aircraft, to be supported & perhaps upgraded by Turkey. The others could benefit if Turkish firms can do the work more cheaply than LM. The benefit to Turkey is obvious.

          No need to overfly Serbia, BTW. You can fly from Croatia to Romania over Hungary, with only a small detour.
          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
          Justinian

          Comment

          • pesho
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2004
            • 632

            #6
            I am from Bulgaria and i can tell you that anything our prime minister says must be taken with HUGE bag of salt. And in this case it's only empty talk and speculation. We don't have the money and i don't see in the near future that we will have something like 300-500mil for any deal. So it will be best if that the title of the thread is changed to "What if....."

            Comment

            • jbritchford
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2004
              • 1550

              #7
              Originally posted by Argo View Post
              Maybe... but I find the mentioning of Turkey suspicious that it would be ex-turkish F-16s.

              Because, as of now, Turkey is committed to buying F-35s and there is no chance in hell either of the three smaller states could afford them(buying together or alone), even if given free. So I see no other reason to mention Turkey as part of the deal unless they are the ones supplying the jets.
              I understood that Turkey was now being non-committal with regard to F-35 due to tech transfer? Eurofighter is pushing them on the issue, offering complete transfer.
              "Quicquid agas age"

              Comment

              • Snow Monkey
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2009
                • 839

                #8
                No, thats BS, Turkey is all-in on F-35, even if they are paranoid about backdoors, etc. Eurofighter has no chance there.
                There has been talk of another Turkish light fighter program, with more ToT, etc,
                and I suppose that could be Gripen NG, european companies/countries certainly seem happy to give Turkey all the ToT it wants.

                I wouldnt be surprised if some sort of buyers consortium, with shared maintenance/training/patrols/etc, manifests itself, though I think Turkeys inclusion in this list may just be hot air / wishful thinking.

                Comment

                • googeler
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jul 2006
                  • 937

                  #9
                  Absolutely no chance as far as Romania is concerned. There simply isn't any money for such a purchase now, common or not.

                  Last summer the MoD wanted to get 24 used F-16 Block 25, the only thing that stopped the purchase was the lack of money. Since than they've cut military wages and pensions, today they cut the Policemen's salary, hospitals are being closed down, etc.

                  The whole report is bogus IMHO. Why would Turkey need to team up with Europe's (military) paupers when they are getting a batch of brand new F-16s right now, upgrading F-4s and CCIP'ing all other F-16s, planning F-35, making giant helicopter purchases, not to mention own r&d ? Makes no sense at all.

                  Comment

                  • MadRat
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 5033

                    #10
                    They should all lease used Gripens together and pool their maintenance resources.
                    Go Huskers!

                    Comment

                    • PLA-MKII
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 1649

                      #11
                      Recently there has been a major discussion about a "very big" JF-17 order by unknown countries. With the recent visit of JF-17s to Turkey, I am speculating that there is some interest in the JF-17. The latest block comes with AESA radar, IRST and other goodies.

                      Comment

                      • medal64
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 1120

                        #12
                        Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                        Recently there has been a major discussion about a "very big" JF-17 order by unknown countries. With the recent visit of JF-17s to Turkey, I am speculating that there is some interest in the JF-17. The latest block comes with AESA radar, IRST and other goodies.
                        JF-17 is a nice aircraft but doesn't suits the Turkish airforce's future ambitious. Its already started works on an indigenous fighter aircraft program that will replace the F-16s and F-4s after 2023! 100th anniversary of the foundation of the Turkish Republic...

                        F-35 and the TF-X is planning to be the main air dominance power of the TuRAF in the future.

                        So in my opinion Turkey is in talks with the Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia for tha sale of its second hand F-16s!

                        Also there are serious talks between U.S and the Romania for the sale of its second hand F-16s.

                        Its probably a news of an unreliable news source
                        Last edited by medal64; 3rd June 2011, 09:17.

                        Comment

                        • swerve
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 13610

                          #13
                          Originally posted by MadRat View Post
                          They should all lease used Gripens together and pool their maintenance resources.
                          +1

                          Pool maintenance with Hungary & the Czech Republic, as well.
                          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                          Justinian

                          Comment

                          • googeler
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jul 2006
                            • 937

                            #14
                            Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                            Recently there has been a major discussion about a "very big" JF-17 order by unknown countries. With the recent visit of JF-17s to Turkey, I am speculating that there is some interest in the JF-17. The latest block comes with AESA radar, IRST and other goodies.
                            Do you grasp the fact that NATO countries will never buy Chinese fighters ?

                            Comment

                            • Aspis
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 971

                              #15
                              Originally posted by swerve View Post
                              +1

                              Pool maintenance with Hungary & the Czech Republic, as well.
                              There could also be another scenario. Greece and Turkey pool turkish F35s. In the spirit of "fair play" , Turkey could give a squadron of her F35s to HAF, so that the interceptions over the Aegean can be more interesting in the future. Because, as things go, the procurement program of Greece is a virtual one, meaning that while in theory it's down to about 1 bln per year, the minister of finance is uncapable of catching tax evasion, so he grabs the 1 bln to the last cent. This trend will continue for a decade.

                              So, in the spirit of fairness, Turkey could give 20 F35s to Greece.

                              Of course another option would be for Germany to give a loan to Greece to buy 20 Eurofighters. But i think the 1st option has more chances to happen. Ahahaha!

                              To be more serious, a 3rd scenario, would be to have Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia and Greece, lease together some Gripens and deploy them in Greece for free trainning in A-A over the Aegean.
                              Sic transit gloria mundi

                              Comment

                              • DrPepper
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 290

                                #16
                                Originally posted by googeler View Post
                                Do you grasp the fact that NATO countries will never buy Chinese fighters ?
                                Agreed, this order or these orders have not come from NATO members

                                Comment

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