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Bin Laden Raid: Stealth Helicopter Mods?

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  • Levsha
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2006
    • 2818

    #41
    That's probably what should happen. And the Chinese should not feel to miffed if the Pakistanis don't hand over any of the wreckage - the Chinese can then be rest-assured that Chinese technology supplied to Pakistan will also never fall into the "wrong hands".

    Some photos I found on a Russian site:

    Source: http://radikal.ru/F/i053.radikal.ru/...62691.jpg.html (via airbase.ru)

    Tony just beat me to it
    Attached Files

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    • MSphere
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 8983

      #42
      A much simpler explanation than a new secret helicopter type would be that this whole raid has never happened. No Bin Laden killed, no crashed helo, just a staged-up wreckage in order to raise Messiah's popularity by 11%.

      Comment

      • Levsha
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2006
        • 2818

        #43
        I think it would be easier to believe in the existence of a secret stealth helicopter, actually - Occam's razor and all that...

        Comment

        • Buran
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Oct 2008
          • 504

          #44
          Originally posted by Levsha View Post
          So, are the Pakistanis going to give the wreckage back to America (the country which bankrolls half of the Pakistani military), or is it off to China with it?

          http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...s-for-Pakistan

          Edit: make that 25% of Pakistani military spending coming from US:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan
          Why are they covering the wreckage? They apparently did hand over the Tomahawk missiles to China in late 90s.

          No one in the Pakistani govt would allow Osama to be caught in that area. Had Pakistan known, they would have taken him to the tribal region and let Americans loose on him.

          As someone has said, they are either involved or incompetent. My guess is both.

          Comment

          • edi_right_round
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2005
            • 264

            #45
            Pakistani never had Tomahawk.Maybe Harpoon u mean?

            Comment

            • Buran
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Oct 2008
              • 504

              #46
              Originally posted by edi_right_round View Post
              Pakistani never had Tomahawk.Maybe Harpoon u mean?
              Some of the 75, which crashed during the attack on bin laden camps in Afghanistan.

              Comment

              • Buran
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2008
                • 504

                #47
                Originally posted by Rookh View Post
                Have you been reading PakDef? The latest piece of genious consensus is that the raid was actually conducted by the Pak army, they told the Yanks, who came in and swooped away OBL's carcus.
                I only realised today that PakDeaf forum is a Govt mouth piece, any comment other than the part line is frowned upon and the member dealt with.

                Their brains refuse to accept the fact that ISI has been proven as incompetent in front of the entire world. If indeed Pakistan was involved than it's even worse that they are taking all this stick for some US aid.

                Anyhow, is there any electronic gadgetry near the tail boom which Pakistanis could look into?

                Comment

                • Type59
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 222

                  #48
                  Originally posted by Buran View Post
                  I only realised today that PakDeaf forum is a Govt mouth piece, any comment other than the part line is frowned upon and the member dealt with.

                  Their brains refuse to accept the fact that ISI has been proven as incompetent in front of the entire world. If indeed Pakistan was involved than it's even worse that they are taking all this stick for some US aid.

                  Anyhow, is there any electronic gadgetry near the tail boom which Pakistanis could look into?
                  Well what so shocking. CIA, KGB and many others have been at times exposed as incompetent!? Well its only the media that describes ISI as powerful, especially western media like BBC.

                  More interestingly, why would ISI concentate on looking for some dude who largely withdrawn from actually carrying out terrorist acts, maybe you need to learn more about structure of Al Qeada. Pakistan intellegence has hads full with dealing with domestic and foreign threats,Pakistan Taliban, BLA and ofcourse India the latter is a more formidable foe then a hermit like OBL.

                  Comment

                  • Type59
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 222

                    #49
                    Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                    So, are the Pakistanis going to give the wreckage back to America (the country which bankrolls half of the Pakistani military), or is it off to China with it?

                    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...s-for-Pakistan

                    Edit: make that 25% of Pakistani military spending coming from US:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan
                    Originally posted by Rookh View Post
                    Who knows? If the US asks for the wreckage back, there's no reason why the Pakistanis should refuse. It's not as if the wreckage is of any use to the Pakistanis, I mean, like if they have a stealth helicopter programme! Besides, if it ends up in China, it's pretty obvious where it came from.

                    It would be useful for Pakistan to test its radar systems to see if they can actually detect copter. Well its the right thing to do is to study system, it would be stupid if they returned every piece

                    BTW if copter did not crash, they would have took the women and children with them.

                    Comment

                    • BlauerMax
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 443

                      #50
                      Army Times: Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk

                      Comment

                      • Samsara
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 529

                        #51
                        Not sure if anyone other than the Americans need stealth helicopters..who else goes around the world doing counter insurgency operations.

                        Comment

                        • J Boyle
                          With malice towards none
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 9698

                          #52
                          Originally posted by Samsara View Post
                          Not sure if anyone other than the Americans need stealth helicopters..who else goes around the world doing counter insurgency operations.
                          Everyone needs stealth helicopters.

                          Noise is one of the largest impediments to commercial operations. Witness the new French laws that could realy limit future civil use and practicality.
                          The technology would be worth a fortune to commercial manufacturers. Let's see if the next Eurocopter or Bell uses anything similar?
                          And EVERY military force wants to travel quietly. Not just for Special Ops missions.


                          I wonder who's closer to the truth..post 30 or 40?
                          There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                          Comment

                          • Multirole
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 888

                            #53
                            Looks likely to be a pimped out Blackhawk, or at least use lots of Blackhawk parts.

                            pb::

                            Comment

                            • mrmalaya
                              Generation 4.75+++
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 4664

                              #54
                              the silvery grey surface application is supposed to be the same IR suppressive material that is used on the Osprey according to the ARES blog by the way...

                              accoustic stealth is important to any manufactuer of helos as has been stated earlier...

                              Comment

                              • Wanshan
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2004
                                • 3929

                                #55
                                Originally posted by Buran View Post
                                Is there any non radar based technology which could be used to detect low flying helicopters?
                                Passive radar detection e.g. Flat Box A on SA-9A TEL and Flat Box B on SA-13 TELAR1 (this would require that the helicopter emits)
                                Acoustic based e.g. Rafael Helispot
                                Infrared/ThermalImaging based e.g. Thales Air Defence ALerting Device (Adad) and Rheinmetall Defence's Fast InfraRed Search and Track (First) reconnaisance sensor
                                Last edited by Wanshan; 24th May 2011, 22:27. Reason: typo

                                Comment

                                • TR1
                                  TR1
                                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 9797

                                  #56
                                  The United States should calmly suggest that future aid/military contracts would be in potential jeopardy should any of the wreckage be handed over to 3rd parties.
                                  sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • J Boyle
                                    With malice towards none
                                    • Oct 2004
                                    • 9698

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                    The United States should calmly suggest that future aid/military contracts would be in potential jeopardy should any of the wreckage be handed over to 3rd parties.
                                    That makes too much sense for US foreign policy.
                                    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                    Comment

                                    • bgnewf
                                      Fighting Newfoundlander
                                      • May 2008
                                      • 595

                                      #58
                                      A couple of thoughts.

                                      This helo must be in some sort of limited field trials or in limited service if it was available on a few days notice to fly down from Afghanistan to take part in this attempt. Likely not flown over on a C-17 on such short notice is my guess (and only a guess).

                                      Was there more than one of these "modified" H-60's used in this raid. A lot of the info I have seen said two H-60 types and two CH-47's. Wonder if there are thoughts on if the Chinooks had any stealth mods?

                                      The US should definitely urge the Pakistanis in no uncertain terms that they need to return the wreckage immediately.

                                      I think what a country like China could learn from wreckage such as this would be materials/metallurgy based. The obvious visual stealth features that anyone can glean from just looking at a photo of a Comanche are well known. RAM coatings, bonded plastics/composites and modern alloys such as they might still exist in the wreckage are the real prize here for a country like China.

                                      my two cents.
                                      "It was a magnificent display of trained and disciplined valour, and its assault only failed of success because dead men can advance no further."

                                      Comment

                                      • Buran
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2008
                                        • 504

                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by bgnewf View Post
                                        The US should definitely urge the Pakistanis in no uncertain terms that they need to return the wreckage immediately.
                                        So US should say, we think you are either involved or incompetent, but dont dare give access to China, your neighbour and the only country which has stood by you while we humiliate your military.

                                        A big ticket item from US is unlikely to be gifted to Pakistan any time soon. China on the other hand provided Pakistan from missiles to the nuclear warhead designs.

                                        Comment

                                        • Samsara
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Dec 2009
                                          • 529

                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by Buran View Post
                                          So US should say, we think you are either involved or incompetent, but dont dare give access to China, your neighbour and the only country which has stood by you while we humiliate your military.

                                          A big ticket item from US is unlikely to be gifted to Pakistan any time soon. China on the other hand provided Pakistan from missiles to the nuclear warhead designs.
                                          The Kerry Luger civilian aid itself is a lot more than anything anyone gives Pakistan...when you dance with the devil,you better like the smell of sulphur.

                                          Comment

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