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The PAK-FA Saga Episode XV

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  • wrightwing
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Originally posted by franc View Post
    It is funny to say 2D nozzle is steathly, if it is then why F-35 isn't retenggular nozzle?
    If you learn some stealth tech you would know that 2D area of cenction of nozzle is larger than 3D nozzle.
    A-the F-35 doesn't use thrust vectoring, so it wouldn't benefit as much from the design.
    B-the F-22 is stealthier than the F-35
    C-the F-35 design was a simpler/less expensive design rather than max signature reduction without regard to expense.

    Comment

    • DrPepper
      Rank 5 Registered User

      C-the F-35 design was a simpler/less expensive design rather than max signature reduction without regard to expense.[/QUOTE]

      Yes, people forget the F-35 was (still is?!?!?) the new F-16, an affordable (that was the idea anyway : /) multi-role aircraft that would take the place of the Falcon on the fighter market.

      I love the T-50 design, but there is something about the build quality that just keeps nagging at me. I hope for the production aircraft it will improve, if so Russia and hopefully India and some others will possess a formiddable aircraft by the looks of things

      Comment

      • wilhelm
        Rank 5 Registered User

        What are those twin-boom prop planes in front of the PAK-FA in Pesho's post above?

        Comment

        • Lonevolk
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Originally posted by wilhelm View Post
          What are those twin-boom prop planes in front of the PAK-FA in Pesho's post above?
          Sukhoi Su-80
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-80

          Comment

          • pesho
            Rank 5 Registered User

            You went out of coma?
            Sort of Just too lazy to check all PAK-FA threads and i didn't remember seening this picture here. Still nice size comparison.

            Comment

            • quadbike
              Rank 5 Registered User

              The Russian Paint Schemes are ugly and old school. I hope they put some Fine Grey on the T-50 than these stupid blue and yellow colours on Su 35s.

              Can't wait to see the T-50 in IAF Grey.
              Love Planes, Live Planes

              Comment

              • TR1
                TR1
                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd

                Originally posted by quadbike View Post
                The Russian Paint Schemes are ugly and old school. I hope they put some Fine Grey on the T-50 than these stupid blue and yellow colours on Su 35s.

                Can't wait to see the T-50 in IAF Grey.
                Have you not seen the second Su-35? or the Mig-29SMTS?

                Much better than that boring IAF grey.
                sigpic

                Comment

                • quadbike
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  I know that colour scheme while that is decent its still too busy and not very professional looking. Infact IAF grey is a bit boring as well. The American grey is perfect their planes look more professional.

                  I also like the Chinese silver looks neat and tidy.
                  Love Planes, Live Planes

                  Comment

                  • J-20 Hotdog
                    Senior Member

                    Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                    Have you not seen the second Su-35? or the Mig-29SMTS?

                    Much better than that boring IAF grey.
                    I don't mind the Pak-fa colours except the way they colored the radome. Shoulda covered the entire area as in the yellow primer before paint than the white angled one. makes it look unproportional.

                    the first Su-35 colours don't make sense. why yellow and brown?

                    Comment

                    • haavarla
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      Originally posted by quadbike View Post
                      I know that colour scheme while that is decent its still too busy and not very professional looking. Infact IAF grey is a bit boring as well. The American grey is perfect their planes look more professional.

                      I also like the Chinese silver looks neat and tidy.
                      I don't like the '901' painting scheme very much eighter.
                      But excatly how can y judge a prototype scheme layout from the serie prod layout?

                      And a singel tone color scheme is more professional vs RuAF scheme how so?
                      professional is not my first impression, but rather dull or boring.

                      Take a look at some of the USAF aggressor color scheme layout, pretty similar to RuAF layout..
                      Those Aggressor F-15 looks absolutly bad @ss
                      Last edited by haavarla; 16th November 2010, 11:08.
                      Thanks

                      Comment

                      • QuadroFX
                        Guest from Russia

                        The American grey is perfect their planes look more professional.
                        Dude, combat aviation - is not glamorous show.
                        Paralay's forum "Stealth Aircrafts"
                        My LIVE Profile

                        Comment

                        • Otaku
                          Senior Member

                          Everybody say a big thankyou to flateric for discovering the official patent application for the PAK-FA, no less. Legible google trans due to length & time constraints:

                          12) ABSTRACT OF INVENTION
                          Status: As of 08.11.2010 - is valid

                          (21), (22) Application: 2009133611/11, 09.09.2009

                          (24) Date of the origin of the term of the patent:
                          09.09.2009

                          (46) Published: 09/27/2010

                          (72) Author (s):
                          Mikhail Pogosyan Aslanovich (RU),
                          Davidenko Aleksandr Nikolaevich (RU),
                          Strelets Mikhail (RU),
                          Runishev Vladimir Aleksandrovich (RU),
                          Tarasov Alexey Z. (RU)

                          (73) patent (s):
                          Open Joint Stock Company "Sukhoi" (RU)

                          (54) MULTIMODE highly-integrated aerodynamic AIRCRAFT LAYOUT

                          (57) Abstract:
                          The aircraft has a fuselage, in which the middle part (2) seamlessly paired with swept wing (3), warhead (1) and tail (6), where the all-moving vertical tail (4) and all-moving horizontal tail (5). The head part (1) the fuselage is light (10). The fuselage has increased the width of the cross section and recruited from airfoils whose height allows you to place the main cargo compartment in the fuselage between the air intakes. The invention is directed to a uniform distribution of air loads and increase load-bearing properties of the fuselage. 10 ill.


                          Спойлер: Скрыть
                          The invention relates to multi-mode aircraft operated in supersonic and subsonic flight speeds in a wide range of altitudes. Preferred scope of the invention are multi-mode super-maneuverable aircraft with a cruising flight at supersonic speeds and low level of visibility in the radar (radar) range.

                          Known in the art aircraft integral aerodynamic layout containing one carrying the fuselage, in which the middle part of the fuselage smoothly paired with swept wing, head of the fuselage and its tail part (RU 2140376 C1).

                          As a well-known shortcomings of the aircraft should indicate the following. In a plane distribution of goods to the external load does not allow to achieve a low degree of visibility of the radar, and high aerodynamic characteristics at supersonic flight regimes.

                          Due to the complex technical solutions applied in the layout and, above all, the integrated aerodynamic configuration of the fuselage, the plane is characterized by high value of the aerodynamic qualities at subsonic flight conditions.

                          The technical result on the aim of the invention is to create an aircraft has a low level of radar visibility, maneuverability at high angles of attack, high aerodynamic efficiency at supersonic speeds and at the same time preserving a high aerodynamic quality at subsonic regimes.

                          The technical result is achieved by a multi-mode highly maneuverable aircraft integral aerodynamic layout containing the fuselage, the middle part of which is smoothly conjugate with swept wing, head of the fuselage and tail, all-moving vertical and all-moving horizontal tail located in the rear fuselage, the average integrated with the fuselage center-wing and made flattened in the vertical direction, and its outer surface in the longitudinal direction is formed by a set of airfoils with high building heights, providing accommodation within the fuselage, built-in cargo compartments, with the upper surface of the fuselage, paired with the outer surface of the lamp and the expanding at the site from the lantern to the tail section of fuselage with decreasing curvature.

                          The invention is illustrated by drawings, where Figure 1 shows the plane in plan view, in Figure 2 - section A-A Figure 1; in Figure 3 - section B-B Figure 1; in Figure 4 - section B In Figure 2, in Figure 5 - section F-F Figure 2, Figure 6 - Rotation of least resistance (the body Siirsa-Haack) on Figure 7 - position of transverse sections of fuselage in Figure 8 - transverse section 7 shows, in Figure 9 - Schedule of cross-sections of the aircraft fuselage; Figure 10 - The enlarged part of the graphic cross-sectional areas of the fuselage of a lantern.

                          The aircraft has a fuselage, in which the average of the two seamlessly paired with swept wing 3, the head part 1 of the fuselage and the tail 6. In the rear part 6 of the fuselage are all-moving vertical 4 and all-moving horizontal tail 5. At the head of a fuselage is light 10.

                          In terms of aerodynamic layout aircraft has the following features: wide lifting fuselage and smoothed graph cross-sectional areas at the site of an airplane cockpit.

                          The fuselage has increased the width of the cross section (Fig. 1, 2) and recruited from the airfoils 11, 12, 13 (Figure 3, 4, 5), whose height can accommodate the main cargo compartment 9 in the fuselage of the aircraft (Figure 2, 3) between the air inlets 8 and also provides the necessary building height to accommodate the side cargo compartments 7 (Figure 2, 4).

                          In addition to space for cargo, resulting in a flattened layout an even distribution of air loads on airframe surface and an increase in load-bearing properties of the fuselage from the perspective of a lifting force that allows you to keep the aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft in general, smaller wing area,

                          In addition, a flattening of the fuselage reduces the effective area of the radar in the most likely areas of exposure: Side and front projection plane.

                          Smoothing schedule cross-sectional areas at the site of an airplane cockpit can improve the aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft by reducing drag.

                          Besides the general theoretical outline, the aerodynamics of the plane and drag affect the arrangement and mutual linkage aircraft parts. To estimate the drag on the mutual influence (interference), the design rule is used areas (Figure 6), which is as follows: in order to reduce the resistance, curve 14 cross-sectional areas of all elements of Sj plane along the length of the aircraft shall comply with the diagrams of the equivalent body of revolution least resistance (cigar-shaped body of high aspect ratio, the so-called body Siirsa-Haack).

                          According to the state of the art in the design of aircraft used the scheme to link canopy and fuselage, shown in Figure 8 (A - a common scheme), which is characterized by the fact that cross-sectional area decreases in the area of the canopy to the tail. The schedule of areas for this scheme has a marked departure from the body Siirsa-Haack in the canopy (Figure 9 and Figure 10, section A).

                          To improve the aerodynamic characteristics of a scheme for linking, which consists in the fact that the upper surface 15 of the fuselage expands on the section of the lamp 10 to the rear part 6 of the fuselage, compensating for the decrease in cross sectional area (Figure 8, B - invented by the scheme), resulting in smoother "failure "on the graph area of a lamp driver, which is characteristic for conventional aircraft integral aerodynamic layout. The curve on the chart area close to the optimal shape, which indicates an improvement in aerodynamic performance (Figure 10, section B) by reducing drag.


                          Claim
                          Multimode highly maneuverable aircraft integral aerodynamic layout containing the fuselage, the middle part of which is smoothly conjugate with swept wing, head of the fuselage and tail, all-moving vertical and all-moving horizontal tail located in the rear fuselage, wherein the middle part of the fuselage is integrated with center-wing and made flattened in the vertical direction, and its outer surface in the longitudinal direction is formed by a set of airfoils with high building heights, providing accommodation within the fuselage built cargo compartments, with the upper surface of the fuselage, paired with the outer surface of the lamp and extending the area from the lantern to the tail section of fuselage with decreasing curvature.





                          Comment

                          • MSphere
                            Senior Member

                            What, no S-ducts?
                            Sorry, could not resist...

                            Comment

                            • quadbike
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              Originally posted by QuadroFX View Post
                              Dude, combat aviation - is not glamorous show.
                              Exactly my point the USAF low-vis grey paint scheme makes more sense.
                              Love Planes, Live Planes

                              Comment

                              • Arthur
                                a plane pour moi

                                Yeah. Combat is not glamorous, so the paintjob should be as boring as possible.
                                Regards,

                                Arthur
                                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
                                Bertrand Russell

                                Comment

                                • MSphere
                                  Senior Member

                                  Arthur, you seem to like grey schemes

                                  Comment

                                  • DrPepper
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    Originally posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
                                    I don't mind the Pak-fa colours except the way they colored the radome. Shoulda covered the entire area as in the yellow primer before paint than the white angled one. makes it look unproportional.

                                    the first Su-35 colours don't make sense. why yellow and brown?
                                    Scheme was selected as it was aimed at exports to African countries if I remember correctly from the mid-nineties.

                                    Comment

                                    • J-20 Hotdog
                                      Senior Member

                                      Originally posted by QuadroFX View Post
                                      Dude, combat aviation - is not glamorous show.
                                      yes YES!
                                      very true.

                                      yet many air forces only use their aircraft for public displays like air shows and little combat. maybe a sexy paint scheme will wow the crowd and convince tax payers to keep funding the military.

                                      after all many of those European air forces that went grey, lost pay! :diablo:

                                      I bet many Swedes would happily fund more Gripens if it had that splinter camouflage.

                                      Comment

                                      • J-20 Hotdog
                                        Senior Member

                                        Originally posted by Otaku View Post
                                        no less. Legible google trans due to length & time constraints:
                                        yes thank you flateric! don't worry Otaku, some one in Paralay will translate it for you one day

                                        Comment

                                        • Otaku
                                          Senior Member

                                          Edit: Unacceptable personal attack removed by moderator.

                                          Beautiful air combat:

                                          Last edited by Grey Area; 22nd November 2010, 17:41.

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