The PAK-FA saga Episode 12.0

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Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 694

Here we go again... :cool:

Links to previous threads: Pick up chips, pop corn and cola and enjoy! :D

So, where were we? Ah, discussing about Mr. Kopp's latest views on the PAK-FA:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html

Edit:

You expect way too much. Kopp has become an univeersal dissing tool for all forum nobodies who need to spill their glass of frustration on someone other's head. Among US fans it has become some kind of fancy - either you call Kopp an idiot or you aren't in our gang. Pathetic bunch of losers... I still wait for a single one of them to disprove him

Maybe I do. For the time being, he is the best source on the F-35 so far, in the sense that he presents the thing's overall picture. I, as a reader, want to read about something, especially its weaknesses. I want to know what it can't do, not what it can do, I have not much interest in reading about its abilities and how wonderful it is, I can always go to the manufacturer's site for that.

The same goes for the PAK-FA of course. Though it's too early, I don't want to see it presented as the ultimate fearsome demon.

Original post

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,245

Well, if Mr. Kopp is really disgusted with the F-35 and the F-22 is not for sales, he should start to lobby for Australia to buy the PAK FA.

It will be a real funny mess to see squadrons of Su-50MKA flying for Australia and a real slap in the face of LM. :D

Member for

16 years 9 months

Posts: 1,403

http://www.ausairpower.net/T-50-Inlet-Facets-1.png

I hadn't noticed the degree of the VLO faceting of the intake 'trunks' before. Which begs the question, what are they going to do with the rounded bare engine metal areas? Bolt on the RAM, or is it a works in progress?

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 9,683

Well, if Mr. Kopp is really disgusted with the F-35 and the F-22 is not for sales, he should start to lobby for Australia to buy the PAK FA.

It will be a real funny mess to see squadrons of Su-50MKA flying for Australia and a real slap in the face of LM. :D

What he'd likely get is stuck with is Super Hornets for the next 30 years. It would almost be worth it just to see the look on his face. :diablo:

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 96

I hadn't noticed the degree of the VLO faceting of the intake 'trunks' before. Which begs the question, what are they going to do with the rounded bare engine metal areas? Bolt on the RAM, or is it a works in progress?

Maybe both?

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 357

Photo is not fake - it is sent to Russia's press by Sukhoi company. Maxim Pyadushkin some reason put it on AW's blog.

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17 years 10 months

Posts: 297

What he'd likely get is stuck with is Super Hornets for the next 30 years. It would almost be worth it just to see the look on his face. :diablo:

The smart thing of course, is to do like India. buy a 50/50 mix of F-18 and PAKFA.

Russia is after all not a natural adversary to Australia.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,245

The smart thing of course, is to do like India. buy a 50/50 mix of F-18 and PAKFA.

Russia is after all not a natural adversary to Australia.

Will Russia sells PAK FA to Australia considering the Aussie friendship with the States? May be Su-34 makes more sense, in order to replace the venerable F-111. May be Mr. Kopp will not be happy on this, but what about a 50:50 mix of F-35 and Su-34?

PAK FA will be available for India,... so far :dev2:

Member for

18 years 1 month

Posts: 254

Size comparison (in scale).

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Member for

17 years 10 months

Posts: 297

Will Russia sells PAK FA to Australia considering the Aussie friendship with the States? May be Su-34 makes more sense, in order to replace the venerable F-111. May be Mr. Kopp will not be happy on this, but what about a 50:50 mix of F-35 and Su-34?

PAK FA will be available for India,... so far :dev2:

My post of course has a bit of trolling in it. But not to create disagrement, but rather to look at merits of different designs.

the SU-50/34, in terms of design and performance looks to be better suited for Australia's needs.

This of course is dependent on my scepticism of the F-35 in the air to air role. USA and it allies has a lot hanging on it, and the Russian combo looks like a killer to me.

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

My post of course has a bit of trolling in it. But not to create disagrement, but rather to look at merits of different designs.

the SU-50/34, in terms of design and performance looks to be better suited for Australia's needs.

This of course is dependent on my scepticism of the F-35 in the air to air role. USA and it allies has a lot hanging on it, and the Russian combo looks like a killer to me.

Uhm.. Why are you going about debating the Su-34 & Su-50 export..:confused:

First of all the Su-50 will not be on sales for anybody but India.
After say 2020 perhaps they export it to others, but with a downgraded version.

And the Su-34..?
AFAIK the Su-34 have not been up for export promotion yet.
I think it will have the same export restriction as the Mig-31 had back in Soviet days..

Thanks

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15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

Size comparison (in scale).

The frontal curves of the T-50 are absolutly Stunning:D
A real beauty.

Thanks

Member for

17 years 10 months

Posts: 297

Uhm.. Why are you going about debating the Su-34 & Su-50 export..:confused:

First of all the Su-50 will not be on sales for anybody but India.
After say 2020 perhaps they export it to others, but with a downgraded version.

And the Su-34..?
AFAIK the Su-34 have not been up for export promotion yet.
I think it will have the same export restriction as the Mig-31 had back in Soviet days..

Thanks

As i suggest in my last post, the question is is teoretical, to discuss the merits of the designs. your reply is therefore beside the point.

We both know that Australia will not be buying a Russian design in the forseeable future.

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20 years 7 months

Posts: 10,217

If by "other" you mean other than air combat related I'd agree. As for "truther", look it up. Flex is on record as saying he thinks 9/11 was an inside job done with explosives. If the shoe fits. . .
Wow, looks like it still robs your goodnight sleep :)

Member for

18 years 1 month

Posts: 254

On request - YF-23A added.

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14 years 2 months

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First of all the Su-50 will not be on sales for anybody but India.

Say what? :) Su-35 and MiG-35 won't last forever.

After say 2020 perhaps they export it to others, but with a downgraded version.

Well, Indian FGFA will be the first downgraded export version.

AFAIK the Su-34 have not been up for export promotion yet.
I think it will have the same export restriction as the Mig-31 had back in Soviet days..

What are the reasons not to sell Su-34 (in export variant, of course) if someone wants it?

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 9,683

Wow, looks like it still robs your goodnight sleep :)

Not at all. Just a source of mild amusement. :D

Member for

17 years 10 months

Posts: 784

Im amazed to read the the Kopp "bashing" has gone and now we actually discussing his views insteading of tearing them to shreads!!!!!

Guys I applaud you!!!!

On the subject of Australia, it has been mentioned many times over that the SU-30 series was on the short list for Australia back in 2000. We were even offered a licence to build!!!

The F35 was never offered or even made a bid during the request for tender. The Government simply scrapped the whole tender process and said, we are buying into the F-35 program.....

Member for

17 years 8 months

Posts: 271

Uhm.. Why are you going about debating the Su-34 & Su-50 export..:confused:

First of all the Su-50 will not be on sales for anybody but India.

WTF...:rolleyes:
Sukhoi already offered my nation (Indonesia) govt their 'future plane'.

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 17

WTF...:rolleyes:
Sukhoi already offered my nation (Indonesia) govt their 'future plane'.

It's sure that Sukhoi want to make as much money as they can from this beautiful bird. The important question left to be answered is whether or not they want renminbi.

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 70

On request - YF-23A added.
Nice pics but not sure that PAK-FA is as wide as that