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  • avion ancien
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Miles Venture

    Does anyone know anything of an aeroplane by this name?

    I have just finished reading Jean Fostekew's biography of Blossom Miles (boy, could that book have done with a good editor - but that's another subject) which refers to the Miles Aeronautical Technical School having designed and built "a twin engined high-wing monoplane........called.......the 'Venture'". The book goes on to say that on the failure of Miles Aircraft, the MATS was taken over by Reading Technical College, with the result that "the aircraft had to be destroyed".

    I have checked 'Miles Aircraft since 1925' by Don Brown, which contains no reference to an aeroplane by the name of the 'Venture'. Nor is there any Miles project dating from this time (1947) which fits the description (assuming that one discounts entirely the possibility of it being a reference to the Aerovan or its derivatives!). Perhaps the reference to the 'Venture' was the result of the passage of time on the memory of the author or simply an error. Does anyone know?

    The book also contains reference to "other projects [being] in the pipeline [including] an ultralight aircraft......." at that time. Was this, perhaps, another product of unreliable memory or error or might it be a reference to the "small two seat pusher project intended roughly to fulfil the SLAC Type 1 specification" (Don Brown, p. 352) which, apparently, did not receive an M number as a result of the collapse of the company? The only other possibility seems to be the M.64-L.R.5. But neither of these appear easily to attract the description "ultralight". Again, any ideas?

    Oh, and before anyone asks - no, I have not yet consulted Peter Amos on these points!
  • longshot
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #2
    Miles Venture

    This unidentified project is on the Miles-Aircraft.com site...perhaps a connection?

    http://www.miles-aircraft.com/Unidentified_project.html

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    • G-ORDY
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      I've seen a photo of the Venture somewhere but can't for the life of me remember where! It's not the project referred to in Post #2.
      Now finished Hawker Hurricane Survivors - published by Grub Street http://grubstreet.co.uk/product/hawk...ane-survivors/

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      • avion ancien
        Rank 5 Registered User

        #4
        Originally posted by G-ORDY View Post
        I've seen a photo of the Venture somewhere but can't for the life of me remember where! It's not the project referred to in Post #2.
        If you can remember anything of the photo, does it tally with the description that I quoted in my original post?

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        • T-21
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          The TS Venture was a twin engined aircraft intended as a test bed for Miles lightweight autopilots,constructed by Miles apprentices at the Technical Training School Davis Farm near Woodley Aerodrome. There is a photo of the wooden fuselage (looking like a pregnant Hotspur glider) on page 122 of Images of England Miles Aircraft by Rod Simpson 1998 Tempus Publishing.
          Last edited by T-21; 11th October 2008, 20:14.
          Fly with the eagles,or scratch with the chickens.

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          • longshot
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            Miles T S Venture in Flight Global archive

            http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200775.html

            this link to a Flight 2-pager on the Miles Aeronautical Technical School with pic of the incomplete 'Venture'....(not the aircraft in the model photos post#2)

            'Wings over Woodley', by Julian C Temple has: The T.S. Venture (1 built)...A twin engine monoplane designed and partly constructed by students of the Miles Aeronautical Technical School, at Davis Farm, Woodley from 1943.The Venture resulted from a (F G Miles)design competition for a flying laboratory....also to test the new lightweight Miles autopilots under development.It is believed that a fuselage mock-up was built, and the actual aircraft was largely complete in 1946.....No Miles type no. allocated.... tested to destruction by the students in 1948

            I'm becoming a Miles fan!!....wish I could afford the Putnam!!

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            • avion ancien
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #7
              Well I've been passionate about Miles' aircraft for a long time but it seems as if there is always more to be discovered. The 'Flight' photo of the Venture is fascinating. Did it progress beyond the fuselage stage? If so, I'd be interested to see any images of it in a more developed form. Maybe someone out there.......................?

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              • longshot
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                T-21....is it the same photo in the images of England book as in the Flight link?

                avion ancien.....the Flight article mentions a glider the Technical College students were building ....in an article in 1947 about a Woodley air display Flight says the 'Venture' is 'coming along nicely', no pic , though....it might be worth enquiring at the Flight photo library if they have any other pics of the 'Venture'....does the biography of Blossom Miles have anything on their house near Woodley 'Lands End' and the aircraft workers village they planned to build around 1947?

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                • avion ancien
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  Originally posted by longshot View Post
                  T-21....is it the same photo in the images of England book as in the Flight link?

                  avion ancien.....the Flight article mentions a glider the Technical College students were building ....in an article in 1947 about a Woodley air display Flight says the 'Venture' is 'coming along nicely', no pic , though....it might be worth enquiring at the Flight photo library if they have any other pics of the 'Venture'....does the biography of Blossom Miles have anything on their house near Woodley 'Lands End' and the aircraft workers village they planned to build around 1947?
                  Longshot, without going back into the book I cannot answer with certainty but, off the top of my head, the answer to your first question is yes and to the second it is I don't think so.

                  As to the glider, I wonder whether this might have been the Crabpot 1. In 1947 a BGA design competition, for a two seat sailplane, was won by Hugh Kendall, Miles' assistant test pilot. Apparently it was a side-by-side two seater with a 60 ft. span, a butterfly tail and an aspect ratio of 18. However my understanding is that the glider was not actually built until 1954 by F.G.Miles Ltd and was known as the Kendall K.1 or the Miles M.76. Bearing in mind that little coverage appears to have been given to the Venture, it seems not impossible that MATS might have been allowed to start building a Crabpot 1 - or maybe the students were building a more run of the mill post-war glider as a training exercise.

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                  • T-21
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    The photograph in the Images book has no people in it and is more a side view but taken in the same workshop as the "Flight" article. There is also a good photo in the Images book of the "Lands End" house on Page 12.
                    Last edited by T-21; 14th October 2008, 19:38.
                    Fly with the eagles,or scratch with the chickens.

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                    • avion ancien
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #11
                      Originally posted by T-21 View Post
                      The photograph in the Images book has no people in it and is more a side view but taken in the same workshop as the "Flight" article.
                      Go on, scan it and post it so that we all can see!

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                      • T-21
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        #12
                        Sorry no scanner.
                        Fly with the eagles,or scratch with the chickens.

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                        • G-ORDY
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          Originally posted by G-ORDY View Post
                          I've seen a photo of the Venture somewhere but can't for the life of me remember where! It's not the project referred to in Post #2.
                          Issue 33 of "Vintage Aircraft magazine" !!! The photo was one of several sent to me by Julian Temple when he was cataloging the Adwest archive at Woodley.

                          Last edited by G-ORDY; 23rd December 2008, 13:35.
                          Now finished Hawker Hurricane Survivors - published by Grub Street http://grubstreet.co.uk/product/hawk...ane-survivors/

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                          • bri
                            bri
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #14
                            I'm yet another fan of Miles Aircraft: have been for many years!

                            I have seen a few references to the Miles lightweight auto-pilots on this forum. As someone who worked on avionics equipment for many years, I am interested in the technical details of these particular auto-pilots.

                            Anyone know where I can read about them?

                            Bri
                            Manners maketh man; ill manners maketh moron.

                            Comment

                            • avion ancien
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #15
                              Originally posted by bri View Post
                              I have seen a few references to the Miles lightweight auto-pilots on this forum. As someone who worked on avionics equipment for many years, I am interested in the technical details of these particular auto-pilots. Anyone know where I can read about them?

                              Bri
                              There is a brief reference to the auto-pilot project in Don Brown's book 'Miles Aircraft since 1925' at pp 39/40. However I think that I have read something more recent on the subject. I thought that it might have been in the biography of Blossom Miles, but a quick flick through that suggests otherwise. Perhaps it was somewhere on the internet. Sorry I cannot be more helpful.

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                              • avion ancien
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                #16
                                Apologies for the resurrection of this thread more than two years on but only today did I see, on the secret projects forum, a thread on this same subject with a hyperlink to a Path newsreel concerning the MATS with footage of the Venture under construction. For those interested, take a look at http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=46512.

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                                • chumpy
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  No need to apologise, very timely indeed reminds me of the need to use the search facility when up against a thorny problem.
                                  I recently acquired an old press photo of the Venture, much like AA back in 2008, I thought what the hell is that, never heard of it.

                                  Super bit of Pathe footage, really must buy myself a pipe and some 'rough shag'...perhaps then I could work things out like they did back then!

                                  Thanks for posting..
                                  Attached Files
                                  pb::

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                                  • bazv
                                    olde rigger

                                    #18
                                    Yes AA...lovely little clip...thanks

                                    rgds baz

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                                    • avion ancien
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      Ah, but you'd need the jacket as well, Chumpy. Ideally tweed, breast pocket, well worn and with leather elbow patches. Otherwise where are you going to stick the pipe on those rare occasions when it is not clamped between your teeth? Oh and, I suspect, stout, sensible shoes would help as well!

                                      Comment

                                      • chumpy
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #20
                                        Many thanks for the fashion hints, would indeed fit in with my 'shabby chic' image, ie scruffy git!.

                                        Going back to the Venture photo meant to stick up a scan of the caption slip, this makes mention of the fact that the people visible are also working on an Avro Avian.. the wings in the foreground by the look of it.
                                        Attached Files
                                        pb::

                                        Comment

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