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    Tom Blair's FW 190

    Hi all,

    I was going through some of this Years Duxfords pictures and came upon these images of Tom Blairs Flug Werks FW190 reproduction. Lets hope that the CAA paperwork is sorted out soon!

    I should know the answer to this one, what engine have they used to power this particular aircraft?


    Cheers

    Eric
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Wessex Fan; 30th September 2007, 15:29. Reason: Added Question

    #2
    It's a Russian engine that was the nearest they could find to the original.

    I think I read somewhere it's a Russian copy of the original BMW but that may be complete gibberish.

    Comment


      #3
      I thought it was a Chinese licence built engine .

      Comment


        #4
        Great pictures Eric, I have some just like it......

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DGH View Post
          Great pictures Eric, I have some just like it......
          Hi Dave,

          If memory serves me correctly we were standing beside each other clicking away, such is the joy of Duxford!

          Cheers All,

          Eric

          PS: Much as I love Jargon, can someone explain in plain English, is there a major problem with certifying this particular aircraft, or is it time honoured British civil service preoccupation with crossing T's and dotting I's?
          Last edited by Wessex Fan; 30th September 2007, 19:46.

          Comment


            #6
            Great pics thanks, time to get this one "up"

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Wessex Fan View Post
              PS: Much as I love Jargon, can someone explain in plain English, is there a major problem with certifying this particular aircraft, or is it time honoured British civil service preoccupation with crossing T's and dotting I's?
              I'll give it a go/guess.

              I don't think it's the particular aircraft, its generally, because:
              1. It's not a certified aircraft, so no certificate of airworthiness can be issued.
              2. It's not a former military aircraft with a judgeable safety record and is not an unsupported but previously supported/type certified aircraft, so no CAA permit to fly.
              3. It's way too heavy to be regulated by the Popular Flying Assoc. who deal with kits & homebuilt types, so no PFA Permit to fly.

              Comment


                #8
                Don't worry, they'll get her 'N' registered and then she's away!!

                G'day

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by David Burke View Post
                  I thought it was a Chinese licence built engine .
                  Going from memory, it's a Housai something-or-other, basically a Chinese copy of the Russian Ash-82 engine.
                  "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease." Sergei Sikorsky

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I originally typed it was a Chinese copy of a Russian copy of the original BMW.

                    Then I changed it before I posted because I thought I must have made it up.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Feather #3 View Post
                      Don't worry, they'll get her 'N' registered and then she's away!!

                      G'day
                      Seems to be taking ages...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        As this is a German Aeroplane then surley it is governerd by EASA and not the CAA Has the German example been fully certified yet or is it still in the prototype stage and still going through flight testing?? and flying on a test permit. This is not a resored A/C dont forget, this is a new built new type!!!! Therefore it has to go through all the rigures of certification of any new type. If it has been fully certified by EASA, i suspect it hasnt yet, then under the new rules it should be able to fly in the UK.
                        I for one look fwd to seeing it in the air, this will hopefully happen when the weight of the paper work matches or exeeds that of the A/C
                        "I see something of the cobra in you Stachel!"

                        Sywell Airshow 17th August 2014

                        www.sywellairshow.co.uk

                        www.Biggles-Biplane.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Feather #3 View Post
                          Don't worry, they'll get her 'N' registered and then she's away!!
                          Given the steady transfer of N registered UK based Warbirds to G- or back to the USA over the last decade or so, I don't think that route remains the best option. If, as The Blue Max conjectures it's a basic certification question, the same issue would, presumably apply.

                          According to the While One foundation in Florida, rebuilding a couple of original Fw-190s, the Flug Werke parts are not interchangeable with the real thing. Again, perhaps a relevant point, and clearly the aircraft can't be certified as a 'late production' Fw.
                          James K

                          Looking and thinking...
                          Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by dhfan View Post
                            I originally typed it was a Chinese copy of a Russian copy of the original BMW.

                            Then I changed it before I posted because I thought I must have made it up.
                            Assuming that the engine is an ASh-82 (or Chinese copy thereof).....

                            According to 'The Osprey Encyclopaedia of Russian Aircraft'

                            The ASh-82 is a 14-cylinder radial derived from the ASh-62 - which was itself derived from the Wright R-1820 Cyclone via the M-25 engine.

                            The cylinder stroke from the ASh-62 was reduced to give a capacity of 41.4ltr on the ASh-82 instead of 42.7ltr on the -62.

                            The ASh-82 was used on many famous Soviet aircraft - including the Lavochkin La-5FN & La-7.

                            BTW, ASh refers to the engine designer Arkady Shvetsov.

                            Ken
                            Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
                            Flankers (& others) website at :-
                            http://flankers.co.uk/

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks JDK...

                              Didn,t know about the interchangeability between the two types.Is it a case of structural modernisation and upgrading like the new 262,s??
                              I know the Fw190 tailwhells will fit each other.
                              "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
                              http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Hi All

                                I am probably going to say something really stupid, however here goes. If we restore the remains of a FW 190 or any other wartime aircraft, that was manufactured only in wartime by the then German aviation industry. Do we not come up against the same problems of certification that appear to be afflicting Tom Blairs 190 replica? Wartime certifications, even if you can find all the paperwork, surely would not be sufficient given possible wartime compromises.

                                The point I am trying to make, is that getting the real thing into the air, will be as difficult in paperwork terms, as will be certification of a replica. Both are in effect new aircraft!

                                Eric
                                Last edited by Wessex Fan; 1st October 2007, 18:23.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Flanker_man View Post
                                  Assuming that the engine is an ASh-82 (or Chinese copy thereof).....

                                  According to 'The Osprey Encyclopaedia of Russian Aircraft'

                                  The ASh-82 is a 14-cylinder radial derived from the ASh-62 - which was itself derived from the Wright R-1820 Cyclone via the M-25 engine.

                                  The cylinder stroke from the ASh-62 was reduced to give a capacity of 41.4ltr on the ASh-82 instead of 42.7ltr on the -62.

                                  The ASh-82 was used on many famous Soviet aircraft - including the Lavochkin La-5FN & La-7.

                                  BTW, ASh refers to the engine designer Arkady Shvetsov.

                                  Ken
                                  Another well known aircraft to use the Ash-82 was/is the Antonov An-2.
                                  By the way Wessex Fan, very nice photos. Thanks for sharing with us.
                                  Last edited by mike currill; 1st October 2007, 18:19.
                                  The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its original size.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    As I understand it, aircraft like the FW 190 won't be certified (i.e.with a C of A) but will fly under an EASA Permit to Fly. The problem is that EASA don't know what form the permit will take as they are way behind on all sorts of legislation. They are also prone to making changes on a whim. For example the Beagle Pup has gone from being an Annex 2 aircraft, eligible for a C of A on the basis of there being a Type Certificate holder, to an EASA permit aircraft. It's a minefield and I think my mate "Feather No 3" has got the answer.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by mike currill View Post
                                      Another well known aircraft to use the Ash-82 was/is the Antonov An-2.
                                      By the way Wessex Fan, very nice photos. Thanks for sharing with us.
                                      No, the An-2 is powered by the ASh-62IR - from which the ASh-82 was derived.

                                      Ken
                                      Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
                                      Flankers (& others) website at :-
                                      http://flankers.co.uk/

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Hah! Typical of my luck. Just when I try to post something half way intelligent someone comes along and bursts my bubble. I think the motto on here is 'Beware - your ignorance will always catch you out'. Serious;y though, thanks for correcting my mistake. That'll teach me to check for accuracy before posting in future.
                                        The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its original size.

                                        Comment


                                         

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