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Rolls Royce Vulture, survivors?

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  • Orion
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2009
    • 707

    #21
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manche...vro+manchester

    I have this book in my library and very good it is. The problem with the Vulture was in its big end design, when RR changed it to a design that was derived from radial engine technology the issue went away, but it was too late as the Merlin engined MkIII was already in production and removing the Vulture from the production schedules at RR factories simplified things a lot.

    Instead of thinking of the Vulture as two 24 cylinder vee engines mounted back to back, think of it as a 4 cylinder 12 row liquid cooled radial!
    David Mylchreest
    Steam and Model Railway videos http://www.youtube.com/user/PenrithBeacon
    Aviation videos http://www.youtube.com/user/austerfive

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    • Graham Boak
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2008
      • 956

      #22
      There was more than one Tornado: possibly only one that flew with a Vulture but that doesn't imply only one engine. There would likely have been a number built before the first flight engine.

      HP57 with Vultures: shouldn't that be HP56? Room for a bit of free-thinking too. What's this Manchester heresy?

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      • bazv
        olde rigger
        • Feb 2005
        • 5884

        #23

        Originally posted by Orion

        The problem with the Vulture was in its big end design
        I think it would perhaps be more accurate to say that One of the problems with the Vulture was in its Big End Design Orion.
        Also if you lost 1 engine on a Manchester - it was a long way home with only 50% of your power left.

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        • Graham Boak
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Nov 2008
          • 956

          #24
          Fairer perhaps to say the major surviving problem, as considerable work had been done already. It is perhaps worth pointing out that other comparable high-power engines such as the Sabre, Centaurus, DB603 and BMW801 had equally important problems at this time, and later. Even the superb R-2800 wasn't entirely trouble-free. It would have been equally far home on any of these. In the end, the Vulture wasn't cancelled because of its problems but because of the pressure of work elsewhere.

          Whether the Manchester was just too big a machine for two engines at this period is a different question, but getting rid of that awful top turret would have helped. Or a better nose.

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          • bazv
            olde rigger
            • Feb 2005
            • 5884

            #25
            I absolutely agree with all your post Graham - but the plain fact is that the Vulture was still going to be a relatively unreliable engine and that the Manchester would not have survived in production.It was a very close run thing for Chadwick to even get the Lancaster into production - there was a strong lobby to get Avro to switch to production of Halifaxes etc.

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            • Orion
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2009
              • 707

              #26
              Ok, you've piqued my interest, what were these other problems and can you provide references please so I can follow it up?
              David Mylchreest
              Steam and Model Railway videos http://www.youtube.com/user/PenrithBeacon
              Aviation videos http://www.youtube.com/user/austerfive

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              • bazv
                olde rigger
                • Feb 2005
                • 5884

                #27
                I am sure you know the problems Orion - they were generally the sort of problems which afflicted the 'Engineering Madness' types of engine as mentioned in post #24 by Graham

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