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  • SADSACK
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 3485

    Whats the future for TFCs Beaufighter?


    53
    They will sell it to the IWM as a static exhibit
    3.77%
    2
    They will get it flying eventually
    60.38%
    32
    If they did get it flying it wouldnt actually fly due to shortage of spares
    1.89%
    1
    Some damn yank will make them a good offer on it
    16.98%
    9
    They will suprise us all and have it ready sooner than thought
    16.98%
    9
    pb::
  • SADSACK
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 3485

    #2
    Any pictures?


    Has anyone got pictures of what it looked like when they aqquired it, and from where?

    Did it come with engines?


    pb::

    Comment

    • Moggy C
      Moderator
      • Jan 2000
      • 20534

      #3
      RE: Any pictures?

      Oh s*d it, the poll machine isn't working again.

      Add one vote for 'It'll fly eventually'

      I'd never underestimate the determination of Stephen Grey

      Moggy
      "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

      Comment

      • Hatton
        _
        • Jan 2000
        • 1392

        #4
        RE: Any pictures?

        i dont think they've come this far just to give up or sell it off.

        silly poll question

        best regards, steve
        sigpic

        Comment

        • SteveYoung
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2000
          • 3867

          #5
          RE: Any pictures?

          I agree with Moggy and Steve - TFC will get her flying eventually. Pete Rushen's currently working on her as I understand it, but being Chief Engineer, he's also got all the winter maintenance of the flyers to oversee. Theres a limit to the number of plates even Pete can keep spinning.

          When last I saw the Beau, she was having extensive hydraulic pipework fitted to the forward spar web, she was having a new tailplane constructed in a purpose-built jig, and she was also having new engine bearers manufactured to accommodate the later mark Hercules engines. Not the kind of work I suspect Mr Grey would commission if he didn't intend to see the restoration through to completion. Don't forget - there's a hell of a lot of work involved in getting any vintage aircraft back in the air, a large proportion of which is almost invisible to the casual observer. The Beaufighter's complexity makes for a very expensive and very lengthy restoration.

          I'm not aware of any pictures available of her condition on acquisition, although the photos on the TFC website do show her under the early stages of restoration. That said, I do have a rather badly lit shot of the fuselage which we're using on X7688, which apparently is ex A19-144, and is therefore the original fuselage from TFC's machine (although it's been in Skysport's possession since the late eighties).
          Attachments:

          Comment

          • coanda
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2000
            • 2306

            #6
            RE: Any pictures?

            when your out of money, your out of money....and if it comes to that, I'm sure there are many people willing to do the right/som thing with it! I know I would if I could!

            maybe we could put together a consortium?


            imagine the board meeting about the colour scheme...........

            coanda

            Comment

            • Tom_W
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 411

              #7
              RE: Any pictures?

              Here here Steve, there's too many 'doom mongers' out there who haven't a damn clue as to how long it takes to restore an aircraft in this country with only limited personnel and it does make me a bit sick when I see posts like the start of this thread, have a little faith people! Since when has Steven Grey ever given up on a project after he's ploughed god knows what into it from his own pocket, these things take time, lots of time.

              Tom.

              Comment

              • Der
                Der
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2000
                • 1270

                #8
                RE: Any pictures?

                And it will be time well spent. Didn't it take 12 years to get the first Blenheim back in the air? Have faith!

                Comment

                • Willow
                  James & Sophie's dad
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 737

                  #9
                  RE: Beaufighter

                  Of course it will fly.

                  It will fly when it is ready.

                  It will not be rushed.

                  It will be completed to the highest standards.

                  It will be an absolute treasure when it is done.

                  There WILL be endless debates about the colour scheme.

                  It would probably be the last of TFCs aeroplanes to be sold and then only if absolutely necessary and as a last resort.

                  (Although TFC aeroplanes have been sold in the past, I think you'll find that that's only happened when there is another example of the same type in the collection, even if it's only in storage).


                  Willow

                  P.S. These are my opinions, and I have no connection whatsoever to TFC. It's just common sense.


                  'You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!'

                  Comment

                  • SADSACK
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 3485

                    #10
                    RE: Beaufighter


                    Well...

                    I just wanted to get some debate going. I guess everyone will bite my head because while I'm looking forward to seeing the Beaufighter fly (or if) if I had to choose between that or the pair of Gladiators...

                    ... I'm just not getting my hopes up too much.


                    pb::

                    Comment

                    • SteveYoung
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 3867

                      #11
                      RE: Beaufighter

                      Pair of Gladiators? As far as I'm aware, TFC only have one on the go...

                      Meanwhile, I've been thinking about the initial poll question on this thread for a couple of days. Those of you who check WIX or barnstormers on a regular basis will probably have picked up on the fact that a very rare Beaufighter project has very recently been made available on the market.

                      It's likely that if sold to the right person this particular example would have a greater chance of a full restoration to airworthiness than she does now. There are two individuals I can think of who have extensive airworthy fleets of vintage aircraft, neither of which currently includes a Beaufighter. Both these individuals are based in the US... so potentially, we could see 'some damn yank' (someone elses words, not mine) restoring a Beaufighter to fly. And I for one would applaud him for making it happen.

                      Comment

                      • SADSACK
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 3485

                        #12
                        RE: Beaufighter


                        The damn yank comment was in jest! If you saw the complete Beaufighter being dragged outside then stuck in a container marked "K Weeks" wouldnt you feel a little envy?


                        pb::

                        Comment

                        • alexis_lambert
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 103

                          #13
                          RE: Beaufighter

                          I'd like to see him get the P-39, Spitfire 22 and the Mosquito flying. I know the P-39 is under restoration but i think it will follow the line of Princess Elizabeth and need redoing after the 1st year. The Spitfire and Mosquito probably will be sold. The Spitfire could be finished in a short time by HFL but i think it would take the Mosquito longer than the boss will be flying to be restored so that might as well go.

                          Comment

                          • SteveYoung
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 3867

                            #14
                            RE: Beaufighter

                            The Mossie was assessed a couple of years ago, with particular attention paid to the sawn through main spar. The upshot was that it was deemed to be repairable, rather than in need of replacement. The chap who assessed it was confident that it could fly again within a couple of years, given the right level of resource (and therefore expenditure).

                            Comment

                            • dhfan
                              Still cantankerous
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 2802

                              #15
                              RE: Any pictures?

                              I've read there is an approved repair scheme for Mossie main spars, but I still find it hard to believe.
                              Like many people, a flight in a Mosquito has been an impossible dream ever since I can remember, but I would look very nervously at one that had a substantial lump of wing stuck back on!

                              Re the number of historic aircraft crossing the pond.
                              I get quite upset when I see that yet another one has gone but must admit that, certainly where Kermit's concerned, they couldn't be in better hands. It's a shame that the Sunderland and Mossie don't fly now but at least their future is more secure than when they were here.

                              Comment

                              • SADSACK
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 3485

                                #16
                                RE: Any pictures?


                                I still think that even if it were to fly, spares would be a nightmare. Unless they reopen the production line on tyres (didnt they do that for the BBMF lanc?)engines etc, surely it would be a very rare flyer?

                                Surely with them restoring the Mosquitos at the MAM they could squeeze in one more?


                                pb::

                                Comment

                                • Tom_W
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 411

                                  #17
                                  RE: Beaufighter

                                  Alexis, just wondering what information you base your knowledge of Fighter Rebuilder's work on? as the P-51C wasn't restored by them and Steven wanted it over for Legends '97, the a/c was only bought in December of '96 so I can't see where they had much time to carry out major refurbishment. The P-39 is a totally different matter as it's jigged and completely stripped down though how much progress is being made and how much cash is being allocated to it isn't really known, I doubt it will need a full restoration after the first season as you so eloquently put it. They did a great job with the P-40C (sodding Paul Allen!) and the Hellcat, Wildcat and P-47 were all restored by them and did they need re-working after a year? Yes the MK22 spit could be completed by HFL in two years, for a large sum! It would need a full rebuild after the 'rebuild' undertaken by Melton and these don't come cheap at HFL, last I heard the P51-D was up for restoration in the states next and with this news of the Mossie being dusted off I'm wondering what's in the pipeline restoration-wise.

                                  Tom

                                  Comment

                                  • SteveYoung
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 3867

                                    #18
                                    RE: Any pictures?

                                    >I've read there is an approved repair scheme for Mossie main
                                    >spars, but I still find it hard to believe.
                                    >Like many people, a flight in a Mosquito has been an
                                    >impossible dream ever since I can remember, but I would look
                                    >very nervously at one that had a substantial lump of wing
                                    >stuck back on!

                                    In all honesty, if it's done correctly it shouldn't be a problem. I'm also guessing that the location of the cut (inboard of an engine nacelle) gives a much greater cross-sectional contact area than if the cut had been, say, half way along the outboard portion of the wing, where the spars are thinner. I'd also presume it's not just one piece which has to be joined; Mosquitoes have a front and rear spar, and the repairs could conceivably be carried out by splicing the existing spars in opposing directions, thereby ensuring that the stresses exerted on the wing in flight oppose any weaknesses in the structure. Don't forget that in the case of a wooden laminated airframe a lot of the aircraft's strength is also drawn from it's surfaces. It's a case of assessing exactly what the loads would be on the structure during every stage of flight, and carrying out the repair with this in mind - there are various techniques, and this particular chap knows his stuff inside out.

                                    Comment

                                    • Yak 11 Fan
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 4377

                                      #19
                                      RE: Beaufighter

                                      Yes the
                                      >MK22 spit could be completed by HFL in two years, for a
                                      >large sum! It would need a full rebuild after the 'rebuild'
                                      >undertaken by Melton and these don't come cheap at HFL,

                                      Thought HFL were now only doing work for themselves for eventual sale.

                                      Can't remember Mr Melton ever getting his hands on the Mk22, last I saw it was being rebuilt 'in house' before worked stopped (or slowed) a number of years ago.

                                      There is a certain amount of truth in that some (not all) American rebuilds have not been completed to the exacting standards of those done in the UK which have at times required further work after they arrive here, but boy aren't American rebuilds shiny!!!!
                                      www.hardwickwarbirds.com

                                      Comment

                                      • Tom_W
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 411

                                        #20
                                        RE: Beaufighter

                                        Aye lad, you're right about them being shiny, not my cup of tea when they aren't Navy schemes but they work ok nonetheless even if they aren't 'Grand champion Oshkosh' class. Got a bit confoosed about the MK22, too much spitfire related spin doctoring going on at work for my brain to handle, this weekend couldn't have come at a better time :-D I hear conflicting reports on what HFL are up to, some say they are only doing work for Bos others saying that they are taking on other jobs, we'll see I suppose.

                                        Tom

                                        Comment

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