Read the forum code of contact
By: - 27th December 2005 at 17:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Privateer?
By: - 27th December 2005 at 18:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nope, C-87 transport version
Cheers
Cees
By: - 27th December 2005 at 19:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All
First of all AL504 was a standard Liberator Mk II with double fins when delivered, but VIP equipped, since it was used by WC as stated. It was delivered to 45 Group. At an unknown date in 1944 it was returned to Consolidated for modification to single-fin version, but WC had already by then discarded the aeroplane for his own use. It went missing between the Azores and Ottawa on 26.3.1945
For some reason it was called Commando, in spite of being a Liberator II. Don't know it it was actually written on the side of the aeroplane itself.
It had NOTHING to do with the USAAF C-87.
Is it possible to get the DATE of the wartime magazine referred to? It could help us narrow down WHEN the aeroplane was in NZ...
Cheers
Stig
By: - 28th December 2005 at 00:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On looking out the magazine again (I didn't have it to hand when googling), I see that yes the aircraft does have Commando written on the starboard nose. It's in an all metal scheme with only RAF roundels, a small finflash and an anti-glare panel in front of the cockpit.
When I re-read the text I discovered (sorry guys) that it was on a first flight inaugarating the British Military Air Service. This was an air route linking Australia-NewZealand-Canada-England.
Tha magazine issue is dated December 1944 and the caption says the event was "last week" so it must have started Nov-Dec 44. I guess it was on this route that the plane was lost.
Sorry I should have seen this vital bit of text. But when i googlesd and saw it was Winnie's plane I jumped to conclusions. Anyway, it's an interesting topic in that I'd never heard of this British Military Air Service before. I wonder how many aircraft operated on it, whether it was just the Commando. I note there are no defensive guns on the plane either. Did it have guns in the days when the PM flew in it?
By: - 28th December 2005 at 09:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nearly on topic.
Many years back there was a 'private detective' type programme on TV that featured in the opening credits a shot of a Privateer decending vertically to a presumably inevitable coming-together with the ground.
Anyone else remember this? I'd guess around 1961-4 which rules a few of you out.
Moggy
By: - 28th December 2005 at 11:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some jigsaw pieces.
1. Winston Churchill was involved in the Boer War when the Boers raised fast moving unconventional units named 'Commandos'.
2. In the Occupied Europe period of W.W.II while looking to ways of attacking the continent, unconventional forces were raised. Winston suggested the name 'Commandos' for these troops. (Incidentally (entirely separately) SOE was created at the same time for a similar task.)
3. Perhaps that's where the name for his aircraft came from?
4. It was certainly that individual aircraft's name - nothing to do with any designation or type at all.
Most photos seem to show it with the single tail, where as Stig's said, Winston never used it in that configuration. These photos, plus the inevitable mention of Winston in the caption serve to add to the confusion over the aircraft's history.
Did it have guns in the days when the PM flew in it?
No. It was a transport aircraft - most W.W.II VVIP transports were unarmed, smart routing being the primary defence.
By: - 28th December 2005 at 11:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks James
By: - 28th December 2005 at 17:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On a related note:
Sat in the pilots bar near Van Nuys about 10 years ago & someone asked what an *A24* was.. apparently the correct answer is an USAAC SBD. But while everyone was arguing about it my wife chips in with "I thought you lot knew aircraft? It's an "Attack" Liberator". Bought the coversation to a screeching halt LOL!!
By: - 28th December 2005 at 18:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nearly on topic.Many years back there was a 'private detective' type programme on TV that featured in the opening credits a shot of a Privateer decending vertically to a presumably inevitable coming-together with the ground.
Anyone else remember this? I'd guess around 1961-4 which rules a few of you out.
Moggy
Does 'The Investigators' 1961, starring James Franciscus and Mary Murphy ring a bell?
Posts: 5,576
By: Dave Homewood - 27th December 2005 at 07:15
In an issue of the wartime RNZAF magazine Contact there's a photo of a single tailed Consolidated Liberator in RAF markings flying low over NZ countryside. The caption calls it a Liberator Commando, and says it visited NZ recently before the issue was published.
I did a Google for Liberator Commando, and found this site which indicates it was a one-off aircraft and Commando was it's nickname rather than a type name. It was apparently serialed AL504, and was converted to single-tailed RY-3 configuration in 1944. Apparently it met a fatal end.
I also found it was the personal transport of Winston Churchill.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b24_5.html
So, why was it in NZ? I don't think the PM himself visited here, but did it transport other bigwigs to this country?