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By: - 11th May 2005 at 00:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Spitfire was gifted to New Zealand .It came from the carrier Theseus.It was then given to the RNZAFand used as an instructional airframe,without serial number .Though its British number was supposidly SW853. The aircraft was broken up very early 1950's
OFMC Fan.
By: - 11th May 2005 at 01:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the serial number OFMC Fan, I have never found any reference to its serial before.
By: - 11th May 2005 at 02:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
First image doesn't look like a Seafire XV. Merlin Seafire. Prop spinning the way of the Merlin.
Dan
By: - 11th May 2005 at 02:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well spotted Dan. Doesn't appear to have a sting hook either which confirms it's two different aircraft.
By: - 11th May 2005 at 04:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
One of the sources says it had a single stage 1850hp Griffon VI engine, if that means anything to you - to me an engine's and engine.
By: - 11th May 2005 at 04:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think all Griffons were single stage so I don't think that helps.
The first pic appears to be an earlier Merlin Seafire or Spitfire, the second is a Griffon Seafire and the third is definitely Griffon powered but whether it's the same aircraft I wouldn't know.
By: - 11th May 2005 at 05:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Early Griffons for the Spit XII , Seafire XV and XVII were single stage. Others were not. Kinda like the Merlins through the VI being single stage and from the VII on two stage
XII had Griffon IIB in DP845 and Griffon III and IV in the XII. Seafire XV and XVII had Griffon VIs if memory serves
Dan
By: - 11th May 2005 at 08:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The photo must therefore be a mistake or perhaps simply representative - the same book has a Ventura under the entry for Harpoon. Thanks for pointing it out.
That Merlin engined one may have been taken when one of the carriers was visiting and may be mistakenly identified as the one left here I guess.
By: - 12th May 2005 at 11:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dave,
I have trawled through my shots and have half a dozen or so of this machine in NZ from RN livery through to the efforts of the 'finishing school'. None carry a UK military serial and I am interested to see that SW853 has been mooted and this is duly noted for further research.
The 'short' Griffon was fitted to the Seafires XV & XVII. I believe that Spitfire XII project is using a Griffon VI and short engine bearer liberated from a Seafire XVII.
If in doubt, a quick identifier is to note that on Merlin Spitfire/Seafires the cowling 'cut out' for the exhaust stacks is in the side cowlings but for all Griffon machines it is in in the top cowling.
Mark
By: - 12th May 2005 at 12:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Mark. Is there any chance of please seeing the images you have that differ from these ones?
By: - 12th May 2005 at 12:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If in doubt, a quick identifier is to note that on Merlin Spitfire/Seafires the cowling 'cut out' for the exhaust stacks is in the side cowlings but for all Griffon machines it is in in the top cowling.
In all my years of staring at Spitfires, I'd never noticed that before!
By: - 12th May 2005 at 12:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Mark. Is there any chance of please seeing the images you have that differ from these ones?
Dave
There are issues with these images. I will PM.
Here is what Air Britain's 'Fleet Air Arm Fixed-Wing Aircraft since 1946' has to say on the matter.
Mark
By: - 12th May 2005 at 13:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That Merlin engined one may have been taken when one of the carriers was visiting and may be mistakenly identified as the one left here I guess.
Is it me or has it got extended wingtips? Could just be the shadow of course, but it looks a bit like a high flyer with a hook! - Nermal
By: - 12th May 2005 at 13:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Extended tips
Is it me or has it got extended wingtips? Could just be the shadow of course, but it looks a bit like a high flyer with a hook! - Nermal
Nermal,
I think you are reading the wing of the Catalina (?) to the rear as part of the Spitfire/Seafire wing tip.
mark
By: - 12th May 2005 at 14:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And, of course, there were no extended wingtipped Seafires - Nermal
By: - 13th May 2005 at 00:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey, so if there are Catalinas in the background, this has to be at Hobsonville, not Ardmore I think. The visiting carrier planes flew into Ardmore, not Hobsonville.
I say it has to be Hobby because that is the only RNZAF airstrip apart from Onerahi that i know of where they could have beached Catalinas.
So, if it is not the same plane then what was it doing at Hobsonville??? For a second I thought it may have been the Mk XVI being prepared for the Auckland War Memorial Museum fter arrival, but then that's a bubble canopy type. Hmmm.
By: - 13th May 2005 at 02:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Firefly 1 origianally was from HMS Venerable ,but transfered to HMS Indefatigable for its visit to N.Z in 1945.
The information was obtained from the book 'Spitfire The New Zealand Story' by Gerald S Morris (page 241)
Its quite a good book.Full of many pictures ,facts and figures that we all cant get enough of !The book mainly deals with 485 NZ Spitfire SQN aircraft,and also the Kiwi conection with a most famous aircraft.
Click on the link for an interesting interview with a former 485 SQN pilot in action over the beaches during D-Day.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/dday/mayston.html
OFMC Fan
Posts: 5,576
By: Dave Homewood - 11th May 2005 at 00:04 - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 11:40
I am intrigued by the Seafire XV that was left in New Zealand in 1947.
HMS Theseus visited New Zealand during August and September 1947. Whilst here, a Seafire XV of No. 804 Squadron, FAA, apparently had a landing accident. The Royal Navy decided to leave it in NZ and donate it to the Royal New Zealand Navy.
Sometime later it passed on to the RNZAF at Hobsonville, and became an instructional airframe with the Aircraft Finisher's School, where airmen were trained to paint aircraft.
At a later date still it disappeared and is assumed to have been broken up and melted down :( but I don't think this has been confirmed, has it?
The actual circumstance of how it became damaged in the first place and why it was left here seem to be a mystery to the researchers of all the references I've seen on it. Also what became of it is another mystery. And even the serial number seems to have eluded historians. Surely 804 Sqn must have noted in their records a crash landing and donation? If not, why not?
These photos are the only ones I know of, there are no doubt more though. The first comes from "Aircraft of the Royal New Zealand Air Force" by David Duxbury, Ross Ewing and Ross Macpherson (1987).
The other two come from the August 1987 edition of New Zealand Wings magazine. The middle photo was taken by Ross Cleverly at Hobsonville, and note no serial is visible, and the last was taken by Keith Kerr in January 1955 in the Hobsonville grave yard. Note the Catalinas NZ4054 and NZ4032, and a wartime Sunderland III also awatiing the scrap man. Also note the aircraft finishers have been practising on the Seafire.
If anyone knows more about this aircraft, how it came to stay here, what its serial was, what became of it... I'd love to hear.
The same goes for the Fairey Firefly '294' that was left in NZ by either HMS Indegatigable or HMS Venerable. This apparently ended up in the Hobsonville Kindergarten, before being burnt at some stage. Does anyone know more abot this plane?