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By: - 26th April 2005 at 13:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It isn't mentioned in John Golley's biography either as far as I can recall (although much of JCs war time expolits seem to have been lifted, at least in part from Night Fighter). I suspect we may never know, although it would be interesting to know what evidence exists for the allegation to be made in the first place.
By: - 26th April 2005 at 13:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The PRO (Now National Archives) at Kew will hold the Operational Record Book for Cunningham's unit for the night, on microfilm. The Bomber Squadron's ORB will be there also, and will support or disute what your info so far says. I don't know what was recorded there, but there'll be enough facts to put him in the air at the right time - or not. Normally claims etc are recorded, and sometimes locations.
What you've referred to so far is certainly secondary sources. The ORBs aren't infalliable, but they are a) contemporary, and rarely adjusted later b) close to what happened. Start there.
At that stage of the war would there have been an enquiry? I believe they were normal in 1939/40. If there was, the PRO would have a transcript. It may be closed under the 100 year rule or similar of course.
Good luck!
By: - 27th April 2005 at 08:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for your comments chaps.
Re James's remarks, yes, the ORB might help but I can't get to Natl Archives in the foreseeable future. In my experience, certain happenings would sometimes go unrecorded in ORBs. The history of No 311 Sqn draws on documents in Czech archives. Czech, and I presume Polish and other allied squadrons, kept an ORB in the native language as well as an English version. Judging from translations provided by my friend Zdenek Hurt of extracts from No 312's ORB, they are far more detailed than the English version. Presumably there was an inquiry but, as you suggest, maybe suppressed in the NA for 100 years. I'll have to investigate further with Prague contacts.
By: - 27th April 2005 at 11:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi AT,
I agree about your thoughts re foreingn sqn ORBs in the RAF; we've done some work on Polish Sqns. However the record for Cunningham's unit will have him flying and what times, or not. That will put him in the air, and making claim(s) or not. If there was a horrible mistake (as there was) then the ORB might be doctored or circumspect - but it's the starting position. Pity the ORBs aren't all on the web eh? ;)
By: - 14th June 2005 at 19:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Came across this on a search (for Middle Wallop) so please excuse a slightly old thread being dug up.
iirc, in Night Fighter, there is frequent reference to Cunningham being very careful to obtain a visual id on an aircraft before attacking. I seem to think he called Rawnsley up to confirm on occasion (maybe when in Mossie's later on). Could go either way as a arguement.
What would a Wellington be easily mistaken for from below and behind? He111 or Do17/215/217 have pretty distinctive outlines. Ju88 but that's easy to mistake for a Wellington either?
By: - 14th June 2005 at 20:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have read CF Rawnsleys Book a few times and there is certainly NO mention of this incident in there. Golley's work also does NOT contain any record of such incident.
John 'Cats Eyes' Cunningham was renowned for his marksmanship, and how close he got in his pursuit of an aircraft to visually identify it.
However. Rawnsley didnt always fly with Cunningham in the early days.
Ray Jade, you recall correctly, Rawnsley writes on more than one occasion in Blenheims and Beaufighters Cunningham asked him up front to see what he'd been chasing. When in mosquito's it seems that john also suggested rawnsley take a look when closing in for the kill.
By: - 14th June 2005 at 22:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
the war in the air
Hi,
Slightly o/t,
But in the war in the air pub1968, pg 106 -9 ,
Air Com R.Chilsolm, CBE,DSO,DFC , writes of shooting down an a/c which later turned out to be a beaufighter.
So accidents did happen and judging by his future rank & awards , they were accepted by those in power as happening.
Cheers
Jerry
By: - 14th June 2005 at 22:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I know of one 600 Sqn Beaufighter flying from Colerne that was shot down by a 604 Sqn Beaufighter flying from Middle Wallop in June or July 1941, the crew managed to bail out. There was quite a bit of consternation between the rival Sqns when the 604 pilot reported that he thought it was a Beaufighter that he was shooting at.
By: - 14th June 2005 at 22:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
aces high
Hi
of interest aces high has cunningham claiming a HE-III on 1st july 41 nr blanford
cheers
jerry
Posts: 797
By: Atcham Tower - 26th April 2005 at 11:16
Am currently researching R1516 "The Broughton Wellington". It was shot down in error by a British night fighter near Mere, Wilts on 2 July 1941 after its IFF failed returning from a raid on Cherbourg. A Czech history of No 311 Sqdn - Kridla Miri na Nemecko - which translates as something like Through Hostile Skies to Germany, claims that John Cunningham was responsible. He was flying Beaufighter R2101 from Middle Wallop. A Slovak young lady (don't ask!) has translated the relevant page for me. Night Fighter by CF Rawnsley, his radar operator, makes no mention of the incident. I don't have access to a copy of the recent Cunningham biography but I am told this doesn't mention it either. Maybe it is an unintended slur on his memory or could it have happened? I would never have raised this painful question in John's lifetime, but it is now part of the history of those terrible times. Was the story suppressed? Anyone care to comment?