Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aeronavale Neptune

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Ron Cuskelly
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2004
    • 228

    Aeronavale Neptune

    Can anyone please identify the unit operating 146433 photographed at Brisbane in March 1975?

    Click image for larger version

Name:	146433-01.jpg
Views:	1053
Size:	51.2 KB
ID:	3868205
    Regards

    Ron

    "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
    Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000
  • scotavia
    scotavia
    • Nov 2005
    • 2815

    #2
    http://www.anciens-cols-bleus.net/t1...flottille-25-f
    French Polynesia based

    Comment

    • Ron Cuskelly
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2004
      • 228

      #3
      scotavia

      Thank you for that link. There is some great movie footage but I could find no evidence of the mystery badge. The badge of 25F is significantly different.
      Regards

      Ron

      "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
      Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

      Comment

      • avion ancien
        Long ago and far away ...
        • Aug 2007
        • 5308

        #4
        Why not try posting the photo at http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforu...hist/index.php?

        Comment

        • Ron Cuskelly
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Dec 2004
          • 228

          #5
          avion ancien
          That was easier than expected. Thanks for the tip.
          Regards

          Ron

          "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
          Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

          Comment

          • DADE
            Rank 3 Registered User
            • Sep 2018
            • 106

            #6
            Your picture is at a distance and I thought it looked like a White Dove. But the only Aeronavale insignia I could find was this. If that is this insignia, then it is an Aeronavale insignia and not a unit insignia as I have seen some of them and they had this insignia displayed above a unit insignia.
            Image result for Aeronavale Insignia
            Last edited by DADE; 20th July 2019, 07:19.

            Comment

            • Mothminor
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2012
              • 992

              #7
              Nearest I could see was the badge of Escadrille 2S but the colours are different.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	1-s-2-s-insigne-metallique-de-l-escadrille-aeronavale-1-s-2-s.jpg
Views:	572
Size:	90.1 KB
ID:	3868452Click image for larger version

Name:	image_263197_cr.jpg
Views:	569
Size:	25.6 KB
ID:	3868453

              Comment

              • Ron Cuskelly
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2004
                • 228

                #8
                Originally posted by avion ancien View Post
                Although it was easier than expected at the time my post has yet to appear. Maybe it's held up in moderation or maybe the language has defeated me.

                Thanks DADE and Mothminor for your responses. Here's a better crop of the insignia in question.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	146433-H238-crop.jpg
Views:	518
Size:	7.3 KB
ID:	3868503
                Regards

                Ron

                "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
                Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

                Comment

                • DADE
                  Rank 3 Registered User
                  • Sep 2018
                  • 106

                  #9
                  Moth Minor is the winner. I have seen better birds

                  Comment

                  • Mothminor
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 992

                    #10
                    Seeing Ron's nicely enhanced image I think it is a different bird to the Escadrille 2S one (which I believe is a phoenix). Looks more like a stork or crane to me. It's quite a puzzle!

                    Comment

                    • Ron Cuskelly
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 228

                      #11
                      It seems that my attempt to post on the French forum mentioned in post #4 has failed. Does anyone familiar with Francais want to have a lash at it?
                      Rgds
                      Regards

                      Ron

                      "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
                      Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

                      Comment

                      • avion ancien
                        Long ago and far away ...
                        • Aug 2007
                        • 5308

                        #12
                        I'll endeavour to do it later today.

                        Comment

                        • avion ancien
                          Long ago and far away ...
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 5308

                          #13
                          Ah, not until I started to do so did I remember that it necessitates uploading a photograph to that forum - or that when, previously, I tried to register to do so, my attempts to register failed repeatedly and, as I couldn't work out why, I gave up trying! Sorry.

                          Comment

                          • viscount
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 392

                            #14
                            For some reason my Midland Counties Publications (MCP) 1975 published, Paul A. Jackson's monograph 'French Military Aviation' survives in my bookcase. Paul Jackson pushed the boundaries of what the British aviation enthusiast knew about the history, units, bases and aircraft of a number of European Air Forces forward considerably. As a first attempt to bring a vast amount of information previously unavailable together in English, no small part of it likely considered secret back home, some detail - especially about the unit histories, current operators and whereabout's of each aircraft was often sketchy.

                            However, as the compilation of the book (1975) is contemporaneous with the photo (thought early 1975), some of entries may add (or confuse) knowledge, but regrettably in no way answer the question posed in the OP.

                            The paragraph introducing the Neptune starts by stating that all examples of the P2V-6 (serials then listed) have now been withdrawn from use, with one (regn stated) still used for ground instruction. The current version of the Neptune, the P2V-7/SP-2H has been partially retired, four examples having been transferred to the Dutch Navy in 1965, and others returning to the USA for storage at Davis Monthan. He then lists 34 serials, most with current whereabouts/operating units and some with a previous unit also listed.

                            The entry for 146433 only confuses. The current unit being given as 12S ? (noseprobe), the aircraft formerly with 23F. Cross reference elsewhere and 12S (12 Escadrille de Servitude) is shown as operating 8 Neptune aircraft (although only 4 are listed by registration) based at Papeete. The unit description includes the information that 4 of the aircraft were specially modified for experimental use connected with the atomic test programme at the Landes range in the Pacific, but retaining their maritime reconnaissance and SAR capabilities. The 12S insignia is described as "a shark's mouth in a radar scope".

                            The previous unit which operated the aircraft is given as 23F (23 Flotille), who by 1975 were operating Atlantic aircraft based at Lann-Bihoue. The unit description includes the information their aircraft are often deployed to the Pacific test ranges. The unit insignia is described as "A seagull attacking a shark" and is illustrated. Only other Neptune unit listed as active in 1975 is 25F , the last home based Neptune Unit, based at Lann-Bihoue with 8 aircraft for maritime reconnaissance and SAR duties. Insignia described as "a black bird over a rising sun". None of the illustrated insignia, and indeed while some of the insignia descriptions do include mention of a swan (3S) or a phoenix clutching a bomb (2S) they are not listed as Neptune units.

                            So no help at all really, apart from putting the aircraft as having served with 2 units that had a presence in the Pacific area, so in the right sector of the globe to visit Brisbane. I wonder if the tail insignia is that of a Pacific French base, the Landes Ranges, or maybe an atomic test unit that was using the aircraft? Interesting question that the standard British enthusiast reference of the period does even come close to answering.
                            Last edited by viscount; 23rd July 2019, 08:32.

                            Comment

                            • Ron Cuskelly
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2004
                              • 228

                              #15
                              Viscount

                              Thanks for your trouble in referencing the MCP book. I have this book in my library and it was the first place I went to. My interest stems from this page on my website.

                              http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/odd...h-Neptunes.htm
                              Regards

                              Ron

                              "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
                              Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

                              Comment

                              • skeeler
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 142

                                #16
                                This doesn't answer the original question, but for those interested there is film here of this very aircraft (without the 'bird' tail markings) and others, which appears to be from 1970/74 whilst with 23 Flottille at Muroroa Atoll etc - the same you tube channel also has numerous other home movie clips of French Navy PV2 Neptunes and lots of other interesting stuff, including film of RIAT 1973 - see here - https://youtu.be/s8xe3H8j0wE

                                Steve.

                                Comment

                                • Ron Cuskelly
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2004
                                  • 228

                                  #17
                                  Folks I finally got to the bottom of this emblem but I had to form a committee to do it.

                                  The emblem on the fin of Lockheed SP-2H 146433 of Escadrille 12S was applied in 1974 when the aircraft was based at Tontouta in New Caledonia. The emblem represents the Cagou, a bird found in the forests of New Caledonia. The same emblem was applied to Neptune 147570 of Flotille 25F which 146433 replaced at Tontouta. So it's not a unit badge but something specific to New Caledonia.

                                  Thanks to Alain Bourret, Dominique Masset and Tim Kalina.
                                  Regards

                                  Ron

                                  "History should always be studied in the morning, before anything else can happen."
                                  Charles M. Schulz 1923-2000

                                  Comment

                                  • Mothminor
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2012
                                    • 992

                                    #18
                                    Well done on solving the mystery! Thanks for letting us know

                                    Comment

                                    Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                    Collapse

                                     

                                    Working...
                                    X