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"Bif" Semi-Tubular Rivets

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  • Alloy
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Nov 2007
    • 208

    "Bif" Semi-Tubular Rivets

    I've been doing some digging on "Bif" rivets used in Hawker construction, and have found two different call-outs for them. In the Tornado-Sea Fury types, drawings always refer to them as "Bif H8" or "Bif H10"; and my understanding is that the numerical designation is the fastener length (yet to be confirmed, but it appears that both types of locations are 3/32" fastener diameters). In later Hawker designs, as indicated by a 1960's copy of the Draughtsman's Handbook, "Bif" rivets are called out as either LAR 162 or LAR 163 "Bif Rivets", when called out in this fashion, they are followed by a "/11" value which again appears to be fastener length. Eg. LAR162/11. With this later type designation, the material specification is called out as L.69, which has now been superseded by L.86.

    So far, I've not been able to determine the material specification for the earlier "Bif H10" style rivets, nor have I been able to locate a cross reference that can confirm that the newer style superseded the older style. I've seen that typically L86 rivets are installed for restorations of the earlier Hawker types in lieu of the Bif rivets, but am seeking proper reference for this one.

    Can any of the wonderful folks on this forum help me with this issue?
    Best regards,

    Ian Slater
    Typhoon Legacy Co. Ltd.
    www.typhoonlegacy.com
    https://www.facebook.com/hawkertyphoonjp843/
  • TonyT
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2006
    • 9010

    #2
    These them?

    http://www.aerovintagespares.com/avs..._AGS_843_.html

    Comment

    • Alloy
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2007
      • 208

      #3
      Originally posted by TonyT View Post
      Hi Tony,

      Unfortunately these are not the ones. these "Bif" rivets were primarily used to attach skin to structure (whereas L.37 rivets were used to assemble structural assemblies). I've attached an image of the shop side of the installed Bif rivets, and a screen shot of the later reference type.

      Thank you for your effort!

      Best regards,

      Ian Slater
      Typhoon Legacy Co. Ltd.
      www.typhoonlegacy.com
      https://www.facebook.com/hawkertyphoonjp843/

      Comment

      • bazv
        olde rigger
        • Feb 2005
        • 5867

        #4
        This is prossibly the rivet manufacturer of the Bif rivets

        https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Bifurc...bular_Rivet_Co

        Comment

        • bazv
          olde rigger
          • Feb 2005
          • 5867

          #5
          Whenever I saw H8 or H10 on aircraft drawings etc - it was usually for the 'Hole' diameter tolerance (ISO) for the 'Fit' of the subject fastener.

          http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/iso_holes.htm

          Comment

          • Alloy
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2007
            • 208

            #6
            Thank you Bazv, That does appear to be the company that manufactured the rivets, it'd be lovely if we could dig up some archival records.

            ISO came well after our friends at Hawker were dealing with these little ******s, and (at the time) Hawker worked in Newall classification of fits for holes etc.

            I did deduce earlier that the number designation is in fact the fastener diameter, with "1" being 3/32" and "8" being 1/8" (see image below), so the "H may be the head type?

            The biggest issue here is the material spec, still working on it!
            Best regards,

            Ian Slater
            Typhoon Legacy Co. Ltd.
            www.typhoonlegacy.com
            https://www.facebook.com/hawkertyphoonjp843/

            Comment

            • bazv
              olde rigger
              • Feb 2005
              • 5867

              #7
              I figured it was probably too early for ISO classifications LOL,I am afraid I never came across those sort of rivets whilst working so cannot help with the 'H' spec.

              rgds baz

              Comment

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