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Amelia and our stripey friends again..

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  • RAFRochford
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2006
    • 911

    #61
    Originally posted by Creaking Door View Post
    'Several large-scale searches of the ocean around Howland Island'.....really? High-profile? When and by whom?
    Well, there was a photograph in that article of Mr Gillespie in a dinghy gazing longingly out to sea. Would that be a high profile enough search?

    Comment

    • J Boyle
      With malice towards none
      • Oct 2004
      • 9792

      #62
      Originally posted by Creaking Door View Post
      'Several large-scale searches of the ocean around Howland Island'.....really? High-profile? When and by whom?
      It's just RG trying to enhance his pet theory.
      If he tells enough people others have extensively searched around Howland, that makes his unproven (and not terribly likely or logical) Nikumaroro theory look better.

      If they had made landfall on Nikumaroro, their likely would have been evidence seen when the Navy searched the place a week after their disappearance, but if they simply missed Howland, they would have sunk by the time the Navy got there.

      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

      Comment

      • MFowler
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 126

        #63
        This is the most interesting quote from Gillespie, in the BBC article: "Each time a search fails to find a physical 'smoking gun' the mystery grows in stature and attracts another would-be The Man Who Found Amelia. It's an interesting self-perpetuating phenomenon."

        And one which Gillespie has nurtured, encouraged and prodded to higher levels at every opportunity over the last 30-plus years.

        Not to mention lucrative. To the tune of more than $2.28 million in salary to him and his wife just since 2001. I don't know about anyone else here, but I think I could eke out a decent existence on an average of $143,000 a year ...
        Last edited by MFowler; 12th August 2019, 23:00.

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        • PanzerJohn
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2008
          • 767

          #64
          Update..

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hotograph.html

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          • MFowler
            Rank 4 Registered User
            • Jan 2018
            • 126

            #65
            I'm curious what Ballard's budget is for this jaunt. TIGHAR has spent almost $7 million since 2000 in documented project costs, the majority of it on expeditions to Nikumaroro, and has found, well, nothing.
            Last edited by MFowler; 17th August 2019, 23:30.

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            • ZRX61
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • May 2005
              • 4767

              #66
              Originally posted by PanzerJohn View Post
              That article is absolutely worthless. It contains the "these bones are 99% certain to be Earharts" bull****
              If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

              Comment

              • Stratosphere
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2014
                • 85

                #67
                Working on the theory that Earheart and Noonan ditched at sea and any remains of the Aircraft are in 18000 feet of Ocean would there be any tangible wreckage left?
                Water pressure at that depth would surely crumple and break up a small Aircraft.
                looking at Ed Noonans life he seems to have achieved a great deal as a master Mariner/Navigator, Shame he is less remembered.

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                • Wellington285
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 421

                  #68
                  These bones were identified as male from the skull and pelvis which Mr Gillespie fails to mention. The length measurement of the femur taken at the time were found to be that of a shorter person. I'm sure that the way of estimating height is the same formula used today as back then. I can say that these bones are 100% not Earharts. Did see a TV programme that challenged Gillespies theory's, managed to record it is there a way of showing it on line or on here with out infringing copyright.
                  Ian

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                  • Sabrejet
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 1757

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Stratosphere View Post
                    Working on the theory that Earheart and Noonan ditched at sea and any remains of the Aircraft are in 18000 feet of Ocean would there be any tangible wreckage left?
                    Water pressure at that depth would surely crumple and break up a small Aircraft.
                    looking at Ed Noonans life he seems to have achieved a great deal as a master Mariner/Navigator, Shame he is less remembered.
                    Water pressure will only crumple objects where there is a pressure differential and the object isn't strong enough to withstand the pressure. So a non-pressurised fuselage wouldn't crumple and neither would the structure itself.

                    Comment

                    • MFowler
                      Rank 4 Registered User
                      • Jan 2018
                      • 126

                      #70
                      From what I can glean from reports on the last National Geographic/TIGHAR expedition, they're not so much in the hunt for bones as they might be for DNA. The Nat Geo cadaver dogs consistently "alerted" in one specific spot on the island, where TIGHAR maintains that Earhart died, so the decision was made to scoop up some of the coral rubble and what passes for soil on Nikumaroro and see if human DNA could be extracted from it. What, if anything, was found has not been released publicly.

                      But ... if the 2019 team brings home more soil, and is able to extract human DNA, and from that extract information about gender, race, ancestry, etc., it leads to several interesting possibilities:
                      • No human DNA will be found, which is likely given the extremely harsh and degrading tropical climate. That will not help or hurt TIGHAR's theory.
                      • Human DNA will be found. Again, finding DNA in and of itself will not prove or disprove TIGHAR's theory, other than to confirm that someone died at that spot.
                      • Human DNA will be found and they will be able to tell it's from a male. This will not prove or disprove TIGHAR's theory. Gillespie may argue that it could have been from Noonan's body, but since TIGHAR doesn't have any DNA for comparison, that's a moot point.
                      • Human DNA will be found and they will be able to tell it's from a male, and either an Asian or Pacific Islander. Either of those disproves TIGHAR's theory and supports the original British analysis that bones found on the island in 1940 were from a Pacific Islander. Gillespie strongly disagrees with this finding.
                      • Human DNA will be found and they will be able to tell it's from a female of European descent. TIGHAR has DNA from an Earhart relative for comparison, and if the DNA matches, TIGHAR was right, Earhart died on Nikumaroro, and we can all get on with our lives.
                      If either the previous expedition or this one recovers usable DNA, whichever way it comes up, DNA doesn't lie. TIGHAR is either right, or Gillespie has spent millions of dollars and thirty years on a fool's errand.
                      Last edited by MFowler; 20th August 2019, 01:18.

                      Comment

                      • Wellington285
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 421

                        #71
                        Hope they do better than their last attempt of getting DNA. All the DNA results were from the guy that collected the samples, some expert.

                        Ian

                        Comment

                        • J Boyle
                          With malice towards none
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 9792

                          #72
                          Anyone here know if useable DNA can survive 80 years in a harsh climate?
                          My inexpert guess is no, judging from what I've heard in similar cases.

                          I have a hunch the National Geographic is doing this as a TV project, with any scientific methodology taking a back seat to hype, promotion and viewers. In other words, the organization's reputation for exploration and science likely has been corrupted by the monetary realities of the real world.

                          In short, by getting in to bed with TIGHAR, apparently without any reservations, their objectives are seemingly one sided, thus hardly objective.
                          Last edited by J Boyle; 20th August 2019, 10:31.
                          There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                          Comment

                          • Wellington285
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 421

                            #73
                            Coral has DNA, thats all they are going to find, coral DNA.
                            Ian

                            Comment

                            • MFowler
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Jan 2018
                              • 126

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Wellington285 View Post
                              Hope they do better than their last attempt of getting DNA. All the DNA results were from the guy that collected the samples, some expert.

                              Ian
                              I could expand on whose DNA was found during that particular TIGHAR expedition, but, well, it's almost too silly to be credible.

                              Comment

                              • D1566
                                Needs retiring.
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 2120

                                #75
                                Originally posted by MFowler View Post

                                I could expand on whose DNA was found during that particular TIGHAR expedition, but, well, it's almost too silly to be credible.
                                Perchance a well-known band leader from WWII era?
                                Martin

                                Comment

                                • ZRX61
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • May 2005
                                  • 4767

                                  #76
                                  Originally posted by J Boyle View Post
                                  Anyone here know if useable DNA can survive 80 years in a harsh climate?
                                  My inexpert guess is no, judging from what I've heard in similar cases.

                                  I have a hunch the National Geographic is doing this as a TV project, with any scientific methodology taking a back seat to hype, promotion and viewers. In other words, the organization's reputation for exploration and science likely has been corrupted by the monetary realities of the real world.

                                  In short, by getting in to bed with TIGHAR, apparently without any reservations, their objectives are seemingly one sided, thus hardly objective.
                                  Wasn't there something a while back about NG being bought out by Fox & losing credibility?
                                  If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

                                  Comment

                                  • TonyT
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Oct 2006
                                    • 9023

                                    #77
                                    There's more.......

                                    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/spotl...ate/ar-AAG4VjA

                                    Comment

                                    • J Boyle
                                      With malice towards none
                                      • Oct 2004
                                      • 9792

                                      #78
                                      I haven't heard the organization has been sold. Perhaps just the TV "brand" but certainly not the Society itself.

                                      My point was whomever owns NG, the huge costs of running a multimedia enterprise is far different from the traditional, nerdy NG magazine of old.
                                      With that you could afford to be scientifically based. With a modern media empire you need to bring in the money and pure objective research becomes a luxury.
                                      Just my guess.

                                      To quote the film The Right Stuff "No bucks, no Buck Rogers".
                                      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                      Comment

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