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“Data plate Spitfire” how long to flight?

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  • paulmcmillan
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 2618

    “Data plate Spitfire” how long to flight?

    I see PZ474 At Avspecs.is bear to first flight so soon after the last one and they have the next Mosquito already in their shop

    so if you had unlimited resources and could sort out the caa issues etc could a dataplate to flying Spit be done in 12 months ?

    that would include engine rebuild so I talking multi different resources working at same time so that is elaspsed time?
    Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.
  • Fournier Boy
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Mar 2007
    • 1010

    #2
    All depends on how many people you have, but if starting fro scratch and all your subcontractors has no other work on, it could be possible. Consider though in normal timescales, it’s going to be about 25-30,000 man hours to build a spitfire and it isn’t as simple of having 15 people working a normal year. Plus not everything is new made, some items like leg castings are not currently remanufactured so sourcing becomes an issue.

    reasonably 4 years is about the shortest time you’ll see one in the air.

    FB

    Comment

    • Propstrike
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Mar 2004
      • 3891

      #3
      Depends how you define the start point. . If you phone up airframe assemblies and arrange delivery of a lot of already-fabricated components you are off to a flying start, and accelerated built time.

      Not many ( manybe nobody ) get it done without significant contributions from the Spitfire 'industry'. I suspect ARC could push one through in 12 months if the incentive (funding ) was there.

      Comment

      • QldSpitty
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2006
        • 2544

        #4
        Ive heard 2 people full time take 2 years to build a fuselage from scratch for a Spit.
        "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
        http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

        Comment

        • Creaking Door
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2006
          • 9720

          #5
          a) Have you just won the lottery?

          b) Even if you have you should never use the phrase 'unlimited resources' in any question you ask...

          ...with far from 'unlimited' resources, it only took NASA eight years to put a man on the moon!
          WA$.

          Comment

          • Dave Homewood
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Mar 2004
            • 5628

            #6
            "I see PZ474 At Avspecs.is bear to first flight so soon after the last one and they have the next Mosquito already in their shop"

            PZ474 flew twice today. But you certainly cannot compare it with a 'Data Plate Spitfire'. Virtually everything in the aircraft that is metal or non-wood is from that actual aircraft. They have not started from scratch and had to find, compile or scratch build all the parts. They were all there.because it was a whole aeroplane that the woodwork needed replacing on.

            Also, the next two Mossies are still at Glyn's place, not in the Avspecs shop.
            Wings Over Cambridge - Cambridge's and New Zealand's Contribution to the Wartime Air Forces

            Wings Over New Zealand Forum

            Comment

            • Mark12
              MEANS MOTIVE OPPORTUNITY
              • Jan 2000
              • 10817

              #7
              Gather parts and build a Spitfire in one year...technically possible but economically a non-starter.

              Mark
              "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

              Comment

              • paulmcmillan
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2000
                • 2618

                #8
                Thanks it was just an exercise in possibilities someone pointed out to me you could get fuselage done one place and each wing somewhere else. But making sure they all fitted and getting ownership sorted out when problems arose would be a nightmare

                2 people for 2 years seems reasonable for the fuselage

                say another year to year and a half for wings and tail and maybe 6 months systems integration (if you used the time to get to that point to create the systems

                the engine assumed you had one from start would be competed in the 2 year fuselage plus build



                the other issue of course is getting the time from subcontractors who may not have the gap to do it


                so four years probably realistic but if you had 150 Million prob quicker
                Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

                Comment

                • Creaking Door
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 9720

                  #9
                  Has your account been hacked 'paulmcmillan'?

                  Your posts are usually so much more 'articulate' and have better grammar and punctuation...

                  ...or did you have a heavy night last night?
                  WA$.

                  Comment

                  • Creaking Door
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 9720

                    #10
                    Surely there wouldn't be any problem with 'the wings fitting' if two wings were built by different companies; I know the Spitfire is a production nightmare but it was a mass-produced aircraft and an airworthy 'data-plate' rebuild ought to be built to the tolerances of the original production aircraft?
                    WA$.

                    Comment

                    • Fournier Boy
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 1010

                      #11
                      Your airframe is only as good as the jig it is built in, no one jig is exactly the same as the next.

                      an engine rebuild is around 2100 man hours

                      FB

                      Comment

                      • merlin70
                        Tim Clark
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 1680

                        #12
                        The recent Mk1s took between 1 and 2 years IIRC
                        Watching the planes fly by...

                        Comment

                        • Fournier Boy
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 1010

                          #13
                          Incorrect Merlin 70, as published in the auction catelogue, one Mk1 took 12 HFL engineers full time for 3 years. Plus additionally I know that the fuselage, control surfaces, engine and propeller were all subcontracted out to at least 4 other companies.

                          FB

                          Comment

                          • Bruce
                            Independent analyst
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 10153

                            #14
                            Back in the day, when I worked for HFL, we built up Mk XIV NH799 in six months flat, from a kit of parts provided by the customer. We also did a full systems fit on EP120 in 10 days elapsed time, including all of the electrical system, hydraulics and pneumatics, though most of the sub assemblies had been pre-prepared.

                            Comment

                            • Fleet16b
                              Fleet Pilot
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 262

                              #15
                              Although they started with a partial fuselage , Vintage Wings of Canada built up a "new build Spitfire Mk 9" fairly quickly . I'm thinking 3 years but can't confirm.

                              Comment

                              • Christer
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 281

                                #16
                                Bruce, you say that "we built up Mk XIV NH799 in six months flat, from a kit of parts" which raises a question or two:

                                Was the "kit of parts" ready for assembly or did it need work to be done?

                                How many people were assigned to the project?

                                Comment

                                • Bruce
                                  Independent analyst
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 10153

                                  #17
                                  Christer, its a while ago now - but we started with a bare fuselage, tail, wings and major flight controls, plus about 75% of the systems parts to complete. There were no engine bearers; which were built from scratch, as were cowlings and fairings. Engine and propeller were supplied by the customer. There were about ten of us working there at the time - and I guess 6-8 were working on it full time in that period.

                                  Comment

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