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By: - 28th October 2018 at 03:29 Permalink
where did the Bolingbroke/Blenheim wind up and where is the Embry sign post?
By: - 28th October 2018 at 06:22 Permalink
Probably all in store. Cos that’s what you should do with interesting artifacts, squirrel them away from prying eyes.
By: - 28th October 2018 at 08:49 Permalink
It was in Bomber command hall when I last went which was about 3 months ago. From what I understand it needed some conservation work from decades on display so I believe it was destined for the MBCC in the short term
FB
By: - 28th October 2018 at 11:42 Permalink
Well how else can you display things like hats without something being sacrificed
By: - 28th October 2018 at 13:56 Permalink
an utter disgrace what has gone on within the walls of the BoB museum
By: - 28th October 2018 at 14:38 Permalink
How can something that needs conservation work going away to have conservation work be criticised. Would you rather it fell apart?
Can’t believe some people sometimes...
By: - 28th October 2018 at 16:43 Permalink
Douglas Baders legs and the Short Stirling sections need no conservation at present time, maybe get them out for the public to see.
By: - 28th October 2018 at 21:42 Permalink
I visited the 'new' RAF Museum on Friday. Having been a regular visitor since the mid 1970's I was very depressed to see what has happened. The Battle of Britain hanger has essentially been turned into a glorified restaurant (to the detriment of the Short Sunderland), less well stocked shop and a 'museum' area that has too much in the way of digital interactives and kids playthings. It's a big backward step in the history of a once fine museum.
By: - 29th October 2018 at 02:45 Permalink
The Battle of Britain hanger has essentially been turned into a glorified restaurant (to the detriment of the Short Sunderland), less well stocked shop and a 'museum' area that has too much in the way of digital interactives and kids playthings. It's a big backward step in the history of a once fine museum.
That's the way of things these days. Surveys carried out by the museum found that over 70 percent of visitors are families, and only 6 percent are enthusiasts, so unless you are prepared to redress the balance and fork out, nowt you can do. Money talks and the RAF Museum, like other big museums in the capital are free, so attracting families and catering to what their needs are is where funding comes from. Face it, museums are visitor attractions; they compete with every other thing to do in the capital. What kid is going to relate to a hall full of static aircraft with a flat board with writen information about it, when they have a phone that provides so much more information? These days museums have to be more imaginative in the way they display their things.
As for the BoB Hall, the only actual BoB vets from that hall are still on display at Hendon, in the main hall, although the Defiant was delivered to 303 Sqn in September 1940 and is at Cosford. The others are all still on display at Cosford and Hendon, except the Seagull V and Lysander, undergoing restoration. I suspect the Hurricane is in store at Stafford, but am not sure. Frankly, the BoB hall needed a revamp. Yep, not to everyone's liking, but there's some interesting stuff in there if you look; that Spitfire has interesting provenance, as does the DH.9A, there's a lobster back Nash and Thompson turret, wind tunnel models of fascinating aircraft projects... As for the dumbing down of information, now each display board in there has not only written information about the aircraft, but audio and a visual display, as well as a 3D model for the visually impaired. The interactives are a necessity to get people interested. Hey, they might even put down their phones for five minutes and learn something.
The RAF Museum is just that, a museum about the RAF; surveys showed that visitors are interested in what people do in the RAF as much as the aeroplanes, so you gotta give them what they want. Not everyone (surprise surprise) wants to just look at aeroplanes. Look at what happened in the Science Museum, same thing, lots of interactives, although the aviation hall hasn't changed in yonks. You guys who constantly rubbish the museum's new direction better get used to it. Or don't go again and continue to whinge about it here; the choice is yours.
By: - 29th October 2018 at 12:07 Permalink
I well remember the shop under Stuart Howe's management, It had most kits you could want, a huge range of specialist books, and a host of other stuff. It was the go to place in the area. Duxford had similar; the DAS shop was another enthusiasts paradise. Many of my reference books originate in those two outlets.
Times change however - the latest texts are a mouse click and often just 12 hours away. Museums like RAFM cant afford to keep huge stocks of books and kits that may never sell, and therefore don't. We can hardly blame them either - they have to rely on impulse buys, which are going to be less than twenty quid a head - if that.
To be honest, and this may be odd from one with a wide ranging interest in history - I am getting tired of people who think our best days are behind us. It isn't just a national disease either; its everywhere. I find that rather depressing. The future is the only thing we can look forward to - one thing we are never going to do is go backwards.
By: - 29th October 2018 at 13:04 Permalink
To be honest, and this may be odd from one with a wide ranging interest in history - I am getting tired of people who think our best days are behind us. It isn't just a national disease either; its everywhere. I find that rather depressing. The future is the only thing we can look forward to - one thing we are never going to do is go backwards.
...Or try for better instead of accepting the mundane.
By: - 30th October 2018 at 21:11 Permalink - Edited 30th October 2018 at 22:10
I'm all for looking forward and I am not suggesting that the RAF Museum has had its day - I just can't believe that what has been delivered is the best use of the millions spent. I think I know what the problems are and one of the fundamental issues is that all national museums are having to chase the 'money' to supplement the decreasing core budgets and 'grants in aid' they receive from the Government or MOD. That is why, when I walked into the 'BoB' building, it has now (in my opinion) turned into a restaurant, shop and 'dumbed down' gallery. The RAF Museum now doesn't tell the story of the Battle of Britain in one building - it's been dispersed around Hendon and Cosford (or removed to store) - that's a big step backwards in my opinion.
They could have used all the latest technology to tell the story in a much more cohesive way and to enhance the fantastic collection of aircraft, film and photographs and other unique collection items. So where do I go now for the definitive history of this country's 'finest hour'...? The other issue is that the main leadership of some of these national museums are not experts in the collections or subject matter their museums cover. I think they lack the in depth knowledge and passion so are more inclined to 'follow the money' and let their institutions lose focus and (again), in my opinion, take the easy options with shops, numerous eating spots and dumbed down exhibits.
When I visited the RAF museum or Lambeth Road many years ago I didn't make the trip to eat a burger, buy a nasty toy Spitfire or use them as a glorified creche to keep the children 'entertained'. I went there to learn and see our national treasures displayed and interpreted in a environment where knowledge was the focus, not generating cash flow. That's the fundamental change in my opinion.
By: - 30th October 2018 at 21:39 Permalink
They need to have gotten Sir Peter Jackson involved..
By: - 31st October 2018 at 00:04 Permalink
Sir Peter has been involved in a couple of museum projects that weren't as successful as planned, due to other people not contributing funds as he hoped. Which sums things up nicely I think.
By: - 31st October 2018 at 09:52 Permalink
With regard to the RAF Museum, it is quite true that the 'main leader' is not a specialist in the field, but it is also the case that her management team quite definitely are. In my opinion, it has been updated to give it more relevance to the wider public, and to hopefully generate more visitors (I haven't seen it yet; in fact I haven't been there for years). Does this 'Dumb Down' the offering? Or does it give it a fresh approach?
I mentioned earlier that the shops at IWM and RAFM have changed to cater more for the masses owing to the growth of the internet. It isn't just the shop that has had to change there though. If we have an interest in a specific area, we no longer need to visit museums. For general interest, we can find most of what we need a few clicks away. For wider understanding, there are a huge range of very good, specialist books available to us, and again, just a click away. I think one has to consider what the role of the artefact actually is in a museum these days. A dusty aeroplane standing in a dark corner doesn't tell us anything any more, and wont bring the punters in. Evolution of the offer is essential to any organisation.
Going back to Tony's original point, that particular exhibit was much more than another dusty aeroplane. One could look into that cockpit knowing a man ended his life there. The futility of it all writ large. It may be that it would be better placed in the IWM for that reason. It may also be that the IWM is the better museum to tell the story of the battle. Ultimately, it is their responsibility to present the history of 'War' in relation to the empire, and to the country we have today, and the RAFM's, to tell the story of the RAF; notwithstanding that part of their job was, and is to fight in wars!
By: - 31st October 2018 at 15:35 Permalink
These are the people running the RAF Museum...
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/about-us/our-senior-leadership-team.aspx
none of them served in any branch of the military, the CEO's father was in the RAF during World War 2, so I suppose that qualifies, but the rest...?
By: - 31st October 2018 at 15:44 Permalink
Why do they need to have served in the military? A completely different skill set is need to run a museum. Yes they have to understand the area covered by the museum but this requires empathy and the ability to absorb and use knowledge.
By: - 31st October 2018 at 18:07 Permalink
That's just the problem Bunsen...
Because they're not "Service" people, and have little or no connection with the RAF, they have no empathy with and for the artefacts in their care.
Putting aircraft up on poles in semi-darkness, in a straight and level attitude, so all you can see is the underside.
Stripping the Sunderland Hall of everything but the Sunderland, to make a large cafe.
Shortening, modifying or whatever they did to the Sunderland float support struts just so they could get more tables and chairs under them.
Cramming the aircraft removed from The Battle of Britain Hall into the other halls, where it's difficult to get a good view of them and appreciate them for what they are, warplanes.
And whatever their nationality, British, German, Italian, etc, friend or foe, whatever part they played, pristine or wreck, they're still part of the RAF history.
I seem to recall it being drummed into me during my 22 years in the RAF as an aircraft technician, that our job in peace was to prepare for war. The Battle of Britain exhibition was an important part of the RAF history, of a war, (albeit a generation before me and my proud RAF service history) and while most of the aircraft were only representative of the types involved, they told the story of "our finest hour", all in one place.
I went to Hendon a few weeks ago, the day after attending a football match at Wembley.
I'll be polite and say that I was underwhelmed by what the RAFM have done, to the point that I found it embarrassing. A cross between a kid's play park, amusement arcade and a theme park.
Sorry but a cardboard cut out of the Vicar of Dibley and the station goat does nothing for me at all.
By: - 31st October 2018 at 18:52 Permalink
In defence of the RAFM shop at Hendon, when compared to museums of many different themes up and down the nation it isn't that bad at all: it has the usual offerings and a bit more. I'm a pretty frequent visitor because of DoRIS and think the shop's book selection is reasonably varied, the second-hand section is always worth a good look too. As far as the specific area of models is concerned, they cater for what will sell, no use complaining about that, it's a sensible approach. The London branch of what is probably Britain's biggest plastic model emporium is only 200 metres away from the car park too and it's stock is also limited and much less than their old shop by the station used to be, that is the way retail has gone.
By: - 31st October 2018 at 20:21 Permalink - Edited 1st November 2018 at 21:40
As I said, I don't go to the RAF Museum to shop but to see the great collection they have. The current 'management' team have allowed a once great Battle of Britain museum to be dismantled and turned into a shadow of its former self. If they had any empathy they wouldn't have 'butchered' the Sunderland to sell more quiches. I bet all of the management team couldn't sit down and give you a detailed history of the RAF and explain the significance of the aircraft they have now put in store or moved to Cosford. They might as well be running a hat museum.....
I think that they could have easily have taken the core of the museum as it was and modernised it and paid homage to a great establishment whilst bringing it up to date. They just needed the knowledge and love of the subject to do a good job.
The reference to Peter Jackson is interesting - look at the effort he has personally put into 'They shall not grow old'. That's because he has the knowledge and empathy.
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By: Rocketeer - 27th October 2018 at 22:26
My views on the disrespect shown by the RAFM hierarchy in dismantling the Battle of Britain Hall are known. But I am very concerned about what has happened to the Maffett Hurricane. People have had no response to contacts.