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  • Duggy
    Flight SIM Pilot

    Whose Fox

    Another headache??, I came across these shots of a Fairey Fox, that look as though they were taken in Asia.
    I thought maybe at first from Parer & Hemsworth in the 34 MacRobertson air race.
    But checking I found they flew a Mk I G-ACXO, and this is a later version.???
    Any ideas??
    Thanks in advance Duggy.

    Last edited by Duggy; 20th October 2018, 23:20.
  • DonClark
    Toujours propos

    #2
    Scant info on the various online registers, however, this is recorded as a Fairey Fox III. One was built as a Company demonstrator: this aircraft carries the Fairey logo forward of the registration and more faintly on the rudder.

    Later Fox Mark IIIs were built in some quantity in Belgium as two-seat trainers.

    Agree about the locale, noting the permanent hangar in one shot, the bashas in the other, and the presence of the same civilian local personnel in each.
    The partial signage ACS 4 may be a clue.

    There's nothing on the ASN db, nor could I unearth anything on www.flightglobal.com though archive search is...tough.

    May get a mention in Taylor Fairey Aircraft Since 1915 but I don't have it.
    Don Clark
    www.211squadron.org

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    • Sabrejet
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Re: "Whose Fox", G-INFO record for it has the aircraft sold by Fairey 13 August 1932. but no owner detail other than being described as a Fox II, 2-seater Biplane with c/n F.1842.

      Comment

      • DonClark
        Toujours propos

        #4
        Sabrejet, looking at G-INFO for G-ABYY shows
        Type: FAIREY FOX 3,
        That is III not II
        Likewise Aircraft Data and Aviation Journal register.

        Agree on c/n, no date shown for the view I got for some reason, though I don't disagree.
        Cheers

        PS Forum performance loading, posting and editing utterly glacial.
        Don Clark
        www.211squadron.org

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        • Mothminor
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          The A Fleeting Peace website http://www.afleetingpeace.org/index.php lists this aircraft as sold to the Chinese Air Force in 1933. Flight Archive has this from 1934 showing the Fox demonstration for the Kwangsi Air Force - https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...search=kwangsi

          Lovely photos which really show the size of the Fox.
          Last edited by Mothminor; 21st October 2018, 09:58.

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          • Mothminor
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            It seems the Fox (having been re-designated mark IV) was demonstrated to the Kwangsi Air Force in 1934 - https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...search=kwangsi
            The pilots of the Kwangsi AF defected to China in 1936 and it appears that the Fox crashed at this time.

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            • Sabrejet
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #7
              To correct: the registration form for 'BYY shows it as a Fox II: the CAA has transcribed it to 'III'. I may post an image if there's still confusion.

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              • Sopwith
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Yes Sabrejet is correct, have a look at pre 1986 registration on GINFO and it does indeed say Fox II. The up to date one has it down as a Fox III so I can see where the confusion lies.
                Beautiful looking aircraft, on a par with the Hawker biplanes in my opinion.

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                • Lynx815
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  Taylors Fairey Aircraft since 1915 has this as built as a Fox III and first flown on 22 June, 1933. Later modified as a reconnaissance fighter with 2 forward-firing guns and a slatted undercarriage, it was then ...shipped out as a Fox IV to the Far East Aviation Co of Hong Kong and Shanghai. Among other journeys it was flown to Liuchow, Kwangsi Province, where it was demonstrated to the Kwangsi Air Force and flown by Chinese pilots. Later, G-ABYY took part in a display on 24 July, 1934, at Hungjao aerodrome, Shanghai, during which it was flown by Flt Lt AD Bennett, the Shanghai manager of Far East Aviation...

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                  • jack windsor
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    hi,
                    www.airhistory.org.uk has G-ABYY as a Fox 3, c/n F1842, as of 13-08-32, sold to the Chinese AF in 1933.

                    Comment

                    • Sabrejet
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #11
                      Looks like most of the modern data for 'BYY is based on the incorrect CAA transcription then: that's a lesson for us all and also demonstrates how one can trace a plagiarised source!

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                      • DonClark
                        Toujours propos

                        #12
                        What a fascinating thread.

                        The ongoing repetition of transcription (or other) error is a fairly well known trap, though I'd hesitate, in this case, to call it plagiarism.

                        It's why eg I usually look at several sources, as here, though in this case still failed to spot the sites found by Moth Minor & Jack Windsor. Note to brush up Search choice/use.

                        I don't quite understand why different views of G-INFO show differing details (thanks, Sabrejet et al) but duly noted for future caution.

                        All in all, Taylor's Fairey Aircraft since 1915 account reported by Lynx815 is the most interesting, very likely correct and directly relevant to Duggys OP and marvellous photos.
                        Last edited by DonClark; 21st October 2018, 20:35.
                        Don Clark
                        www.211squadron.org

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                        • Sabrejet
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          And as ever, a good reason to buy those Putnam titles.

                          Comment

                          • DonClark
                            Toujours propos

                            #14
                            Quite agree Sabrejet and not too hard to find, though prices range widely. Otherwise, off to the library!

                            Mark you, good as the Putnams are, as we've also seen elsewhere, they may still have errors or inconsistencies.

                            But then, even primary (original, contemporary) records may not be free of error or omission (Aircrew Logbooks and Squadron Operations Record Books being a good example).
                            The human condition...

                            Last edited by DonClark; 21st October 2018, 21:54.
                            Don Clark
                            www.211squadron.org

                            Comment

                            • DH82EH
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #15
                              Do any foxes, or major components survive anywhere?
                              Nice looking biplane.

                              Comment

                              • Duggy
                                Flight SIM Pilot

                                #16
                                First want to say thanks for all the input.
                                It would be nice if anything did survive, maybe someone at 12 Sq knows?
                                And if not I should think Belgium would be the best bet.
                                Most however started off like this.

                                But became "CANNON FODDER" during the German invasion.(Although one is credited with a 109 kill?)

                                On another note this new forum update is almost as bad as my ex-wife!!!

                                Comment

                                • John Aeroclub
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  The original Fox as used by 12 Sqn had nothing in common with the later Foxes, Just the re-use of a name. A number of later Foxes were used by Peru and if anything survives it might just be there.

                                  John

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