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By: 8th October 2018 at 22:43 Permalink
-Well, if it's not a Sperrin, what the hell else could it be?
Adrian
By: 9th October 2018 at 11:13 Permalink
-WB494 Avro Ashton. engine FTB. Scr. Hatfield 1963.
By: 9th October 2018 at 12:34 Permalink
-Well, there was a third Sperrin... A static test frame, full size. Never flown. Could be that?
By: 9th October 2018 at 12:42 Permalink
-Alertken is spot on. It is definitely the Ashton he identified and it was scrapped at Hatfield after the date of the Trident FF.
By: 9th October 2018 at 12:51 Permalink - Edited 9th October 2018 at 12:54
-Looks very much like a Sperrin to me, the "stacked" upper and lower engines are pretty unique (Ashton engines were under-slung) and everything else fits with Sperrin (mid-wing, slab-sided fuselage etc, Ashton was low-wing, circular fuselage).
By: 9th October 2018 at 13:23 Permalink
-High-mounted tailplane with dihedral. Fits for Sperrin but not for Ashton, which was mid-mounted without dihedral.
By: 9th October 2018 at 13:31 Permalink
-Well, the Andover has the dihedral tailplane and the exhausts could be mistaken for the Sperrin's stacked engines. I could believe that (do the dates fit, anyone?), but I'm not going to believe it's an Ashton until I see a photo of one with an engine fit that explains that rear view and the dihedral. As a testbed it's possible, but not until...
Adrian
By: 9th October 2018 at 13:45 Permalink
-Could simply be 'sent for scrapping 1958', but languished several more years before being disposed of
By: 9th October 2018 at 13:48 Permalink
-OK, but why at Hatfield?
By: 9th October 2018 at 14:24 Permalink
-Andover C1, as in piccie above, prototype flew from Woodford in 1963, according to Wikipedia.
Brian
By: 9th October 2018 at 15:08 Permalink - Edited 9th October 2018 at 15:13
-The type in the background is a Sperrin. and probably VX158 which operated out of Hatfield to test the Gyron Junior.
John
By: 9th October 2018 at 15:22 Permalink
-At 0.34 the Ashton can be seen by the hangar. Are we talking about two different aircraft in the background?
By: 9th October 2018 at 15:35 Permalink
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At 0.34 the Ashton can be seen by the hangar. Are we talking about two different aircraft in the background?
*cough* that's a Comet!
By: 9th October 2018 at 15:39 Permalink
-The Sperrin was still in one piece when I visited Hatfield in July 1961. In the YouTube video at 8:17 you can also see the Ashton beside what looks like a Comet.
Why did the Sperrin end its days at Hatfield ? Probably because it was a flying test bed for the de Havilland Gyron, which was manufactured at nearby Leavesden.
Iain
By: 9th October 2018 at 18:50 Permalink
-Nice spot! I have a soft spot for types such as the Sperrin. Shame it didn't survive.
By: 9th October 2018 at 18:53 Permalink
-Its a Sperrin of course ,almost certainly VX158 left over at Hatfield from De Havilland Gyron trials and written off in 1958.
By: 9th October 2018 at 23:03 Permalink
-This was VX158. I photographed it at Hatfield in September 1961, but I don't know when it was eventually scrapped. It was based with DH engines 'over the other side' at Hatfield. The second Sperrin VX161 was intact at Sydenham (Belfast Harbour / George Best these days) on 10th May 1958, when I clocked it. It survived a bit longer, but I have no accurate date, as it was just something that was 'around'. I do have an engine blade from it, however. I've never heard of there being a third one, although a structural test specimen might have been made, but again I don't remember any other large bits appearing.
By: 10th October 2018 at 08:05 Permalink
-Flight, January 21st, 1955 pages 79-84 details the design & build of the Sperrin. It says three airframes were produced. Two fliers, and one which was used for fuselage pressure testing and wing load tests. Would make sense, too. to do. However, on closer reading it suggests the test airframe was never fitted with engines and undercarriage, so would rule that out in the movie.
By: 10th October 2018 at 09:39 Permalink - Edited 10th October 2018 at 09:50
-Reading Chris Barnes's Short's Putnam, I note he uses the term "Scrapped" for VX158 at Hatfield in 1958 and also for VX161 at Sydenham " early 1957". I suspect that "Struck off charge" (S.O.C.) would perhaps have been less ambiguous.
Posts: 84
By: HALCYONMAN - 8th October 2018 at 13:02
Excellent [but silent] Pathe film of Trident first flight at Hatfield in January 1962 shows what appears to be intact Short Sperrin in back ground @ 5.44.
From other info available it says that the Sperrin's were or had been scrapped in the late 1950s with one source quoting 1958?. As this is filmed January 1962 [according to clapper board on Pathe website] it proves the Sperrin was STILL intact till at least then in the beginning of the 60s and possibly longer?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNBXLFF80tI
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/first-flight-of-de-havilland-trident-airliner