E Elsie Dambuster Lanc recovery fund

By: allan125 - 6th September 2018 at 15:45 Permalink

This isn't a "Dambuster" Lancaster as it crashed in Sweden in October 1944, and the Dambuster operation was May 1943, it is simply a Lancaster that was operating as part of 617 Squadron, the "Dambusters", but about 17 months after the Dams raid, so not as historic as one from the actual Dams raid, which of course was over Germany. This has had almost 74 years of the ravages of time and looting, and the RAF Museum already has the remains of a Halifax that crashed after a similar operation.

By: Nachtjagd - 6th September 2018 at 17:53 Permalink

Really??? How's this going to work then? Are the permissions in place? What's the recovery & transportation & storage plan? Don't want to seem unduly pessimistic but next month? Wow.

By: ZRX61 - 6th September 2018 at 18:19 Permalink

2nds attempt at replying as the previous reply appeared in a thread I wasn't even looking at:

He isn't claiming it was on the dams raid, merely that it served with 617 & carried Tallboy bombs. Permissions to recover are in place.

By: richw_82 - 6th September 2018 at 18:29 Permalink

Hi all,

I'm not sure if the search function is broken, but if you can look back you'll see various things about my attempts to get this Lancaster recovered; its one I've been working on for a long time. Its me that has set up the JustGiving account to try and raise some funding to help the recovery along.

I'm aware its not a Dambuster Lancaster, rather a Dambusters squadron aircraft, but its as significant for three major reasons - it is the last one extant in any capacity from that Sqn, its one of only a handful with a verified combat history (including Operation Paravane as well as Obviate), and its the last one with all the 'Tallboy' equipment and bulged bomb bay doors (all of which is largely intact). I'm not sure of the relevance of bringing the RAFM Halifax into it, as its not meant to be a competition or comparison. If that were how the world worked, we'd only need one Spitfire to represent the whole type and use!

Ownership doesn't rest with the local community... the whole mess of worms that is ownership has been thoroughly explored, having gone through the Swedish MOD, Defence Attache for the MoD in Sweden, MInistry of Culture and about a dozen other departments to find and either verify or dismiss all the differing stories about NF920's hostory from 1945 - 1995. Suffice to say those that can say 'yes' to this endeavour have done, and I've recently established that I won't be breaking any laws or by-laws. I've no doubt some of the local population will be miffed about this but leaving it to the elements and vandals isn't preserving it or doing it any favours, and more recently the family of the pilot have also expressed the wish to see what is left preserved.

The plan - its the same as its been for years, albeit altered for the restriction imposed by not being able to take heavy machinery on the land. A site survey recording everything, no matter how small. Disassembly of the remaining sections according to AP2062A. Everything palletised that can be, and prepared for airlift, then out she goes by helicopter to a suitable nearby staging area where it will be loaded onto waiting flatbeds.

As for next month - that is this years window, its just how things have fell, I don't have the luxury of time. If it can be done in that timeframe it will be. If not, it will be pushed back to next summer.

Kind regards,

Rich

By: grahame knott - 6th September 2018 at 18:39 Permalink

I wish you the very best of luck and every success. I know what it is like to stick your neck out and have a go so just get out there and do it, succeed or fail you will have done more than most.

By: richw_82 - 6th September 2018 at 18:56 Permalink - Edited 6th September 2018 at 18:58

Thanks Grahame. I hope it succeeds... last time I got this far some silly so-and-so started a war and the Royal Engineers that were going to do the recovery got called off to go somewhere hot and sandy!

By: 1batfastard - 6th September 2018 at 18:58 Permalink

Hi All,
So what's the current rate of hiring these then just for starters ? (Better safe than sorry as for they're size :p) What about approaching the RAF using your needs as an exercise with you and whoever else paying for the fuel ?

Then for the journey back home everything fits into a 124 ?

Geoff.

By: Meddle - 6th September 2018 at 19:07 Permalink

I had half a hope of seeing this wreck 'in the field' some day. It seems poignant, even if the wreck itself is slowly rotting away to nothing. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of recovering it any more than, say, the example in the lake at Peenemunde.

By: TwinOtter23 - 6th September 2018 at 19:40 Permalink

Rich, it was good to have a brief chat last weekend at the Shackleton Boys book launch at Newark; one quick question - are you part of the same group that last year was looking for a UK home for this Lancaster recovery?

By: MN138 - 6th September 2018 at 19:47 Permalink

Best of luck, I can't seem to find it on the search function but I remember your previous hard work and enthusiasm for 'Elsie'. I have donated and hopefully it will prove a successful operation this time around.

By: richw_82 - 6th September 2018 at 20:19 Permalink

Meddle - it is quite poignant and I'd love to see it preserved in a similar manner to the Berlin Technical Museum aircraft, or the East Kirkby Spitfire and Mustang to capture that. But its a bit shortsighted to let it corrode away or be broken up into pieces sold on ebay when it can be preserved for the future. I have to agree on the Pennemunde wreck as its believed some of her crew are still with her, and the family's wishes was for it to stay that way.

TO23 - I thoroughly enjoyed myself at Newark last weekend. It wasn't me I can only assume it was someone off the Facebook page when they were doing things like petitions without knowing exactly what they were trying to do..

TallyHo! - Thanks. Although Shackleton, and lately Meteor have taken up a lot of my time I have kept plugging away on Easy elsie trying to get through the red tape.

By: TwinOtter23 - 6th September 2018 at 23:20 Permalink

Hello again Rich, I was just wondering re Easy Elsie - I've just checked my files and since 2014 I've had three separate people make contact regarding the airframe!

Good luck with your endeavours.

By: Alan Clark - 11th September 2018 at 23:38 Permalink

Some may find this odd from someone who visits crash sites and takes part in recoveries.

I'd rather it remains where it is.

There are still Lancasters flying, and museum examples, add to that the number of large sections which have already been recovered from crash sites and are on display and I have to say why bother add to that collection? There is nothing new to learn from it.

The aircraft in Sweden is only of interest because of the squadron the a/c was assigned, had it been 83 Sqn for example would we even be hearing about it? There was a site in the UK which was just as good, and it was the subject of a large recovery, and for what? Closed away in an air station heritage centre which is only by appointment and the odd airshow day, at least on a Scottish mountain you didn't need an appointment, just commitment.

richw_82 referred to a couple of the reconstructed wrecks at East Kirkby, but they were buried remains which no one could see without first digging them up and massively disturbing the remains in the process before rebuilding them. That's the kind of recovery I see the sense in, we at least get to see what is left even though ultimately we don't get to learn anything from the recovery itself.