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AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

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  • ukmams
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2000
    • 132

    AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

    The following is taken from the September listings of the AAIB website http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/sep01/sep01in.htm
    which make for interesting reading.

    Quote: "Although there was some nose vibration in the latter stages of the landing run, the pilot did not realise that he had landed with the wheels up until advised by ATC." Unquote

    Also in this months lisings are reports for:
    Harvard G-BRWB
    Spitfire G-OXVI
    TigerMoth G-AOJJ

    Regards

    Scotty
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    United Kingdom
    Air Accidents Investigation Branch
    Bulletins (September 2001)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AAIB Bulletin No: 9/2001 Ref: EW/G2001/06/01 Category: 1.1



    Aircraft Type and Registration: De Havilland DH112 Venom FB1, G-GONE
    No & Type of Engines: 1 De Havilland Ghost 48 MK.1 turbojet engine
    Year of Manufacture: 1954
    Date & Time (UTC): 2 June 2001 at 1013 hrs
    Location: Biggin Hill Airport, Kent
    Type of Flight: Private
    Persons on Board: Crew - 1
    Injuries: Crew - None
    Nature of Damage: Damage to underside
    Commander's Licence: Airline Transport Pilots Licence
    Commander's Age: 69 years
    Commander's Flying Experience: 5,574 hours (of which 242 were on type)
    Last 90 days - 10 hours
    Last 28 days - 6 hours
    Information Source: Aircraft Accident Report Form submitted by the pilot


    The aircraft was being flown from Bournemouth, Dorset to Biggin Hill, Kent as the number three aircraft in a three-aircraft formation positioning for the annual air display. Although the pilot had over 200 hours flying experience on type, this was only his second flight on type in 8 years and only his second flight in G-GONE. During his first flight on the previous day the pilot had noted that the undercarriage position indicator lights were quite dim and difficult to discern being positioned as they were to the lower left of the instrument panel.

    On arrival at Biggin Hill the three aircraft carried out a 'run in and break' manoeuvre from line astern formation for a landing on Runway 21. On the downwind leg the pilot carried out the pre-landing checks which include, amongst other things, the lowering of the undercarriage and one third flap, and a check of brake pressure at the wheels. After lowering the flap, the pilot checked the flap position indicator and noticed that the flap was at more than the one third setting. He raised the flap to the correct setting and continued the approach.

    As he entered the turn to the final approach the pilot lowered full flap and concentrated on achieving an even spacing between the three aircraft whilst avoiding the slipstream of the two aircraft ahead. He became conscious that the spacing between the lead aircraft and the number two was less than between his own aircraft and the number two and applied power to reduce his spacing on the aircraft ahead. He checked the undercarriage indications and, although he had some difficulty seeing the indications in the prevailing light conditions, he convinced himself that the undercarriage was down and called 'FINALS THREE GREENS on the tower frequency. The pilot then carried out a normal flare and smooth touchdown with the aircraft landing on its belly. Although there was some nose vibration in the latter stages of the landing run, the pilot did not realise that he had landed with the wheels up until advised by ATC. When the aircraft came to a halt the pilot closed down the aircraft systems, made the ejection seat safe and exited uninjured.

    In his report the pilot considered that three factors contributed to his failure to lower the undercarriage. First, the undercarriage and flap levers are located in close proximity and are of similar design. Although he thought he was lowering the undercarriage in the pre-landing checks, he believes that he actually lowered flap. When he subsequently checked the flap position indicator after completing the checks and discovered more than the desired flap setting, he failed to associate the excess of flap with a failure to lower the undercarriage lever. Second, the location of the undercarriage position indicator in the cockpit and the intensity of the lights sometimes make the undercarriage position difficult to discern. Third, the concentration required to carry out a stream landing may have distracted him .


  • Bob
    Bob
    Aerophile
    • Jan 2000
    • 3657

    #2
    RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE


    Perhaps the pilot has been secretly testing X-Cor's Me163 replica!!!

    Under my gruff exterior lies an even gruffer interior...

    行雲流水

    Warbirdskies Blog

    Comment

    • coanda
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2000
      • 2306

      #3
      RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

      did he ever make the same mistake in the previous 200 odd hours flying on this type??!!

      coanda

      Comment

      • ukmams
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2000
        • 132

        #4
        RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

        Yeh - I'd like to see him land a 737 on it's engine cowlings!!!

        Is that why the cockpit voice thingie calls out "Retard, Retard"?

        ;-)

        Comment

        • GrahamOD
          Member
          • Jan 2000
          • 44

          #5
          RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

          Perhaps, as he was landing at a Battle of Britain airfield he was expecting someone to come running from dispersal and fire a very pistol into the air!!!!
          "You could teach monkeys to fly better than that...."

          Comment

          • SteveYoung
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2000
            • 3867

            #6
            RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

            Only the second flight on type in eight years? Is that sufficient for a DA?

            Comment

            • David J Burke
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2000
              • 475

              #7
              RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

              The DA is not on type - it's on aircraft weight I believe. As she was landing I don't suppose that is considered as a display as she was being ferried up from Bournemouth to take part in the ill fated formation later in the day. As it turned out it was a
              display for all the wrong reasons !
              When all is said and done DeHavilland are not about to
              redesign the Venom cockpit so I guess the are not many lessons to be learned - bad luck is all I can say!

              Comment

              • coanda
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2000
                • 2306

                #8
                RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                2 hours on type in the last 8 years, wheres his check ride???? it is not safe to think that you can remember how to fly an aircraft if you have only flown it for one hour in the last 8 yrs, aside from that, is not a check flight mandatory???

                coanda:7

                Comment

                • David J Burke
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 475

                  #9
                  RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                  Can I just say that I don't consider failing to put the undercarriage down a major failing in the pilot. I had to repair
                  a Mooney that was landed at Birmingham wheels up. The pilot was extremely experienced and very current - he just made a mistake.
                  Any amount of check flights-tests etc are not going to remove the factor that we are human . I dont see the police
                  forcing people to take their driving test again when someone
                  bumps another car so although the crash of the Venom was very public I don't think the are any lessons that we will learn from it. The breakdown of the two hours time would be interesting.
                  It's a long time if it was spent carrying out general handling and 'circuits and bumps' at Bournemouth

                  Comment

                  • David J Burke
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 475

                    #10
                    RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                    Anyway how many twin stick Venom's are flying !!!!
                    The is one Sea Venom in the U.S flying but thats about it!

                    Comment

                    • ReHeat Freak
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 101

                      #11
                      RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                      I think failure to lower the undercarrage is something that experienced pilots do because everything becomes like second nature and basically fly by their own auto pilot, and don't double check everything like young or student pilots do(I should know). I think ther are two quotes that would suit this incident.
                      "A good landing is one you walk away from , a great landing is one where you can re-use the aircraft"
                      and the other
                      "S**t Happens!!"

                      Comment

                      • David J Burke
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 475

                        #12
                        RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                        Well said - as long as the pilot is okay thats all that matters!

                        Comment

                        • Paul Cushion
                          Psychedelic Superstar
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 470

                          #13
                          RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                          Well, I'm not a pilot and so therefore am unable to comment on any technical aspects of this incident. I am however qualified to say that everyoone is liable to make mistakes and that if it was'nt for people like this guy we would'nt have airshows to go to. Give the guy a break. I bet he feels bad enough without getting any more hassle!!!

                          Paul.

                          Comment

                          • ukmams
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 132

                            #14
                            RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                            Great discussion chaps, I'm glad I posted it now.

                            Unfortunately - I did exactly the same thing yesterday flying a Cessna into Halfpenny Green, lovely landing, nice flare, just no undercarriage. Luckly I was only flying my PC and FS2000pro.

                            ;-)

                            Scotty

                            Comment

                            • David J Burke
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 475

                              #15
                              RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                              Well I guess it's just a matter of a cup of coffee then and then off you fly !!

                              Comment

                              • ukmams
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 132

                                #16
                                RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                                Only when the missus lets me! Talk about under the thumb!
                                Trying to get her to let me buy a cockpit, but she wants the kitchen ripped out. Sacrifices we blokes have to make.....

                                Role on the first Herc cockpit that comes on the market....Fit just nicely in the spare room!

                                Scotty

                                Comment

                                • David J Burke
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 475

                                  #17
                                  RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                                  Couldn't you just buy her the galley out of something ????
                                  VC-10 ?

                                  Comment

                                  • ukmams
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 132

                                    #18
                                    RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                                    [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-09-01 AT 05:01 PM (GMT)[/font][p]corr...never thought of that. kill 2 birds with one stone!!!

                                    we need a new settee too, now some nice comfy reclining ones from 13abc def would do. I could put a freight door on the side of the house and put some 463L pallets in the dining room. Yipee!!

                                    I'll change the house number from 42 to XV102 and my name to Guy Gibson VC.

                                    Then the divorce papers will come and i'll get kicked out, lose the house, the vc10 upgrade and the kids.

                                    Oh well, looks like new worktop and tiles all around!

                                    Scotty :-)

                                    http://ukmams-oba.lweb.net/asi92.jpg

                                    thats me on the left!! Before I got a tan in sunny Ascension Island. Substitute the Tristar KC1 for a VC10 and I've got my first fixtures and fittings.


                                    Comment

                                    • coanda
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 2306

                                      #19
                                      RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                                      yes mistakes do happen, but i think it is still a bit dodgy that he was intending to fly the aircraft, after 8 years with minimal retraining,to use someone elses analogy, how would you fare, 8 years after stepping out of one car, and then trying to drive it around, so that you dont break it, oh and scotty, it is now profanity to use halfpenny green on that airfield now, or so i'm told by a fiso over there!! to me it will always be halfpenny green, have some good memories there and have never landed wheels up there either!!!!! although my instructor seemed to want me to force the tail into the ground before the wheels, which i thought a bit odd, but then he was in charge, so it would be his fault not mine!!!

                                      ps, that does not mean that i have ever landed wheels up anywhere.................. because my gear has been fixed largely!!!!!!!!

                                      coanda

                                      Comment

                                      • ukmams
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 132

                                        #20
                                        RE: AAIB Bulletin on Venom G-GONE

                                        It will always be Halfpenny Green to me too! I don't live all that far away from it over in Worcester.

                                        I wondered how long it would be before flight simmers started re-enacting Tuesdays dreadfull events only to see some dickhead on Channel 4 news last night at 7pm doing it. Sad, very sad.

                                        Oh well, with armagedon around the corner, I'd better get my Survive to Fight book and old uniform out the loft before we're all called up to fight Satan's hoards!

                                        Keep the faith

                                        Scotty

                                        Comment

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