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    ID of control column

    'Afternoon all, I need the help of the experts once again. We have a control column in Irish Military Archives which we would like with your assistance to identify.

    Markings.... 312/35, BSA G4 and also the BSA symbol. AID 5HO (Inspectorate I presume). On the levers BSA G3 and BSA G4.
    131 (on shaft below grip) 225 s.

    Many thanks as always

    Tony Kearns
    Attached Files

    #2
    Hawker family of prewar biped. Likely Hart.
    But similar fitted to Hind, Fury
    Tony Dyer
    https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

    Comment


      #3
      Ps, happy to give it a home lolo😀😀😊
      Tony Dyer
      https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks Tony , sounds like the Hind as the Air Corps operated the Hind and Hector, would the Hector be identical?
        We hope to have it on loan at the Air Corps Museum to clean it up. Thanks again, your assistance is much appreciated.
        Tony K

        Comment


          #5
          Could be hector too
          Tony Dyer
          https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks again Tony, as the Hind and Hector had forward firing machine guns where was the firing buttons located ?.

            Tony K

            Comment


              #7
              The firing buttons are the two thumb levers on the spade grip captain!
              Our Beech 18 & T-6@www.beechrestorations.com
              Visit Sywell Aviation Museum @
              www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/museum.php
              Sywell Airshow 17.8.2014

              Comment


                #8
                Afraid not a captain only an 'erk TT.
                They only had one gun, why the two levers?

                regards
                TonyK

                Comment


                  #9
                  Standard Spade Grip? I’ve got one myself! ��
                  Our Beech 18 & T-6@www.beechrestorations.com
                  Visit Sywell Aviation Museum @
                  www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/museum.php
                  Sywell Airshow 17.8.2014

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Tony
                    Please correct if wrong I understand theyre wheel brake levers, not gun buttons. The left one is connected to the left wheel brake and the right on to the right wheel brake. Steering the aircraft on the ground was by differential braking whereas when stopping you press both together.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I always thought they were gun triggers, but I may be wrong. Certainly they did not have a standard brake lever like Dunlop spade grips. I have a Hart mainwheel, does not have brakes, so did any of the Hawker bipes have wheel brakes?
                      Tony Dyer
                      https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "Tony
                        Please correct if wrong I understand they’re wheel brake levers, not gun buttons. The left one is connected to the left wheel brake and the right on to the right wheel brake. Steering the aircraft on the ground was by differential braking whereas when stopping you press both together.



                        That is what I said initially when shown the Spade Grip at Military Archives, which was why I am wondering now where the location of the firing button is located on the aircraft

                        Tony K

                        Comment


                          #13
                          On reading fellow forumite Air Ministry's fabulous 'An illustrated guide to British Aircraft equipment 1939-1945 Volume 4 - 'Dunlop Spade Grips and gun Firing Gear' page 132, there is mention that when this handle is fitted to an aircraft with only one gun fitted, the right hand trigger is connected to the firing mechanism of the gun and the left hand trigger used to operate a gun camera, if fitted. Perhaps AM can provide a little more information???

                          GYD

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I was reading Roland Beamont's wonderful book Flying To The Limit recently and he mentions using brakes on a Hawker Hart during his training. There is also a photo in the book of the instruments and control column of a Hart and it looks remarkably similar to the one in discussion.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've looked through my collection of contemporary cockpit photos and it looks like the majority of these Hawker types had the two trigger spade grip, i.e. Hart, Demon, Audax, Fury, etc.

                              You should be looking on the column for part number clues as that will help to positively identify the type from which this came.

                              I think the confusion about the use of the levers for operating the brakes may come from restored examples which have been converted from Palmer foot operated hydraulic brakes (spares "unobtainium"?) to hydraulic brakes, using the gun triggers in this way.

                              Thanks for the kind comments about the book, GYD!
                              The garage that keeps on giving.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                AM, I am beginning to get the picture, at my age these things happen. All the details we were able to see are in my original posting

                                Thanks to all for taking the trouble.
                                regards
                                Tony K

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Tony K,
                                  Similar grip here in Australia from Hawker Australian Demon, numbered 931/35, which I understand is serial 931, production date 1935.
                                  All 'Hawker' Hectors were made by Westlands, so if there is a HA or HE (Hawkers) inspection stamp on any of the components below the BSA grip it is not Hector.

                                  All Hinds and Hectors only had one gun, one trigger connected via cable to CC gun gear. Two trigger grips sometimes had a rubber 'boot' fitted over one trigger.
                                  At this stage, I am unaware of 'modern' gun cameras, linked to CC gear, being fitted to Hart biplanes, requiring trigger actuation.
                                  I understand that manually operated gun cameras, actuated by pulling a trigger in the usual grouse shooting way, were in operation.

                                  All original Hart biplanes had Palmer brakes, pneumatic or hydraulic, rudder pedal assembly actuated.
                                  Using a hand trigger as pneumatic valve controller, as per a WW2 aircraft, implies the fitting of Spitfire-Mosquito differential braking valve to a rudder pedal assembly unit, which I do not think is fitted to Hart type biplanes flying at Shuttleworth, but I live to learn.

                                  Does the Air Corps Museum have a Dagger engine, by the way...

                                  Comment


                                   

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