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By: - 9th October 2017 at 20:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is this a 411 Sqn aircraft?. If so they had IXb's in June 44 I believe. On a slightly wider version of the picture it shows a vertical line as part of the serial number. I thought this might be a 1 at the end of the serial, but now think the white painted strip may be covering part of the serial? Could the vertical line be part of a H, as in the MH range. 411 Sqn did have several spitfire's in that serial range on hand in June 44.
By: - 10th October 2017 at 00:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ive only just now found the squadron/airfield/date of the photo, but not the exact serial no. of this aircraft.
And what might be your take on the squadron/airfield/date of the photo, olly_s?
By: - 10th October 2017 at 06:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have note of three Spitfires coded DB-R at this period.
Please date your image.
Mark
By: - 10th October 2017 at 08:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'd say, from the way they are painting those invasion-stripes, the date is June 5th 1944!
Unless this is a replacement aircraft later than that; but then I'd expect a slightly better paint job.
By: - 10th October 2017 at 09:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The inboard stripe does not look quite so 'fresh' so it could be a quick repaint/refresh job,although some of the 'messy appearance' is caused by the 'Lead' (tetra ethyl lead) deposits from the engine exhausts.
By: - 10th October 2017 at 09:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Found this following a quick Google.
More information, but no serial --> http://spitfiresite.com/2007/12/painting-d-day-stripes-june-5th-1944.html
By: - 10th October 2017 at 11:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In the link you can see the slightly wider picture with part of the serial visible. Looking again, there doesn't seem to be a corresponding other half of a H for the visible part. Could it be a J, with the numbers overpainted by the stripe. Mark - are any of the 3 aircraft you have recorded in the MJ serial number range?
By: - 10th October 2017 at 11:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Twenty seconds of Googling brought up this caption
A scene recorded on June 5th, 1944 in Tangmere, Sussex. Preparing Spitfires for D-Day, 411 Squadron RCAF ground crew members apply invasion stripes to Spitfire Mk. IXe, DB-R, serial no. RR 201. This aircraft was flown by F/L Jack J. Boyle.
Sixth image down: http://spitfiresite.com/tag/spitfire-mk-ix/page/10
Moggy
By: - 10th October 2017 at 11:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RR201 was not in service in June 44. So looks like it was mis-identified. See link below:
By: - 10th October 2017 at 12:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RR201 was not in service in June 44.
Yes, but apart from that minor detail ...
Back to the drawing board :D
Moggy
By: - 10th October 2017 at 14:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A couple of thoughts; it would be much easier to make a mistake with the serial number than with the date, especially give it was that date in particular (and given the particular activity being photographed) so is there a similar aircraft with an easily confused serial number that was in service on 5th June 1944?
Also, given the levels of secrecy around D-Day, was this an activity that was likely to be photographed (by outside agencies)?
Lastly, if few (any?) genuine 'invasion stripe' painting session photographs exist, wouldn't there be a great temptation to photograph a (far less secret) later painting session and then pass it off as the real event (in which case the serial could be correct)?
By: - 10th October 2017 at 15:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
serial no. RR 201.
Doubtful.
RR201 did not come in to service until November 1944
The image appears to show the top of a down stroke of an 'M' or a '4'.
MJ754 was DB-R.
MK834 was DB-R
PT792 was DB-R
Mark
By: - 10th October 2017 at 15:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Date is June 5th 1944 at Tangemere.
Plane is Spit ix DB-R
sorry i made any confusion
By: - 10th October 2017 at 18:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Came across this better quality version of the photo on ‘WarThunder’. Did a crop on what serial we can see as well
As there is a letter/number to the left of the ‘4’ or ‘M’ I would imagine it is a ‘4’. Looks like a straight edge so more likely MJ754 if Peter’s three serials are what we have to choose from
or is it an ‘M’ and the rest of the serial is covered by the invasion stripe??
Chris
[ATTACH=CONFIG]256223[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]256222[/ATTACH]
By: - 10th October 2017 at 19:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would say its a 'M' you can see the break of the stencil between the last vertical stroke of the M & the bit of the V, then there is just the top of the first stroke of the M peeping above the tailplane.
Keith
By: - 10th October 2017 at 20:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
According to these two books (links below), MK834 was destroyed on May 19th, 1944, when flak hit the bomb it was carrying during an attack on a Railway Station at Hazebrouck, France.
It's pilot, Sqn Ldr Norman Fowlow was killed.
So, MJ754 perhaps?
Cheers
Paul
By: - 10th October 2017 at 21:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unfortunately MJ754 arrived in Casablanca on 17 March 1944.
I believe it to be an M followed by a J covered by the Invasion Marking.
Mark
By: - 10th October 2017 at 21:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unfortunately MJ754 arrived in Casablanca on 17 March 1944.
Yes Mark, I just checked myself, and indeed it did!
So still believed to be an MJ serial then?
Cheers
Paul
By: - 10th October 2017 at 21:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
MJ754 - 33MU 10-1-44 222MU 5-2-44 Fort Liard 1-3-44 Casablanca 17-3-44 2SAAF Hit by flak and abandoned nr Veghereto 27-7-44 recat A 31-8-44
Not sure this fits either?
By: - 10th October 2017 at 22:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looking at the June 44 ORB, it looks like MJ454, MJ468, MJ125, MJ237, MJ831, MJ985, MJ474, MJ229, MJ905 were all with 411 sqn at the beginning of June.
Posts: 192
By: olly_s - 9th October 2017 at 18:27
Hi,
i was wondering if anyone knew the serial number of this aircraft? ive only just now found the squadron/airfield/date of the photo, but not the exact serial no. of this aircraft.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]256213[/ATTACH]
its a rather iconic photo of the RAF during the d-day landings so im surprised i cant find info on the serial number
any help would be appreciated
thanks,
olly