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Glen Miller Wasn't Killed By RAF Lancasters?

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  • Creaking Door
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2006
    • 9720

    Maybe it was a Fairey Hawker-Siddeley Blackburn Buccaneer Swordfish thingy.....that should pretty much 'cover all the bases'!

    I mean, if you recover a random fragment of aircraft in your search, it is absolutely essential that you can positively identify that it came from a particular aircraft type; after all, that may be the cornerstone of your proof!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 10th January 2019, 12:39.
    WA$.

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    • PanzerJohn
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2008
      • 763

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ime-plane.html

      Comment

      • MFowler
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 94

        Anddddd it starts. The TIGHAR publicity machine kicks into high gear to "solve" one of the "world's greatest aviation mysteries' with, waitttttttttt for it - a "preponderance of evidence."

        Comment

        • J Boyle
          With malice towards none
          • Oct 2004
          • 9588

          Based on their AE experiences (where anything found in the island was tied to her, no matter how unlikely...shards of "freckle cream" jar, bits of metal, shoes far too large, etc), I wonder if they will go out of their way to label anything they find as "proof"?


          So I'll guess any R-1340 will be determined to have come from the UC-64, even in the absence of conclusive proof, or whether the engine serial of the missing plane is known...or whether the serial would survive in a engine submerged for 75 years.
          There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

          Comment

          • Sabrejet
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Mar 2010
            • 1645

            Well an R-1340 would be a more unusual engine to dredge up (compared to say a Merlin, Pegasus or DB.605) but I suspect it's more likely that any 9-cylinder radial will be labelled 'proof'. I can't wait to find out, now that we know what really happened to Amelia and Fred.

            Comment

            • Wellington285
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Apr 2008
              • 407

              Why would Millers plane crash some 40 miles off Portland Bill seems a very long way off course if you were going to Paris.
              Ian

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              • J Boyle
                With malice towards none
                • Oct 2004
                • 9588

                TIGHAR will probably say it was on a secret spy mission...
                There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                Comment

                • Bob
                  Bob
                  Aerophile
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 3586

                  It picked up a distress call from AE & FN?
                  Under my gruff exterior lies an even gruffer interior...

                  行雲流水

                  Warbirdskies Blog

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                  • MFowler
                    Rank 4 Registered User
                    • Jan 2018
                    • 94

                    I'll be generous and say, TIGHAR is going to find the correct style of engine. It will have managed to unearth the records with said aircraft's serial numbers and other identifying marks. The engine will be recovered, examined, and verified by independent experts as from the aircraft that carried Glenn Miller.

                    At the end of the day ... So What?

                    There is already a new book out that makes a very convincing case that Miller went down in the Channel. We know from prior statements by Gillespie that he thinks little of efforts to find and photograph WWII shipwrecks, saying, "What's the point in finding and photographing them?" Can't the same thing be said about this effort?

                    At the end of the day, what is Gillespie's purpose in doing this? Finding the airplane isn't going to solve the mystery of what happened.
                    Last edited by MFowler; 13th January 2019, 21:11.

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                    • Creaking Door
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 9720

                      I suppose the enduring appeal of any mystery is knowing exactly what happened, and knowing exactly where it happened may help in discovering that, but the ultimate answer is going to require a lot more questions being asked and answered.

                      So let's say that TIGHAR do find the engine and other wreckage from Glenn Miller's aircraft, what then?

                      How will that tell us what happened? And you can forget the fisherman's tale of virtually complete aircraft being pulled from the sea (in my opinion)!

                      How will you know how the Norseman came to be there: was it bad weather, icing, engine failure, fuel starvation, navigational error, pilot error, pilot incapacitation, instrument failure, structural failure, control restriction, disorientation, enemy action, friendly-fire, sabotage, murder or murder-suicide?

                      What 'smoking gun' piece of wreckage is going to tell you that.....even if you do find the wreck?
                      Last edited by Creaking Door; 13th January 2019, 19:31.
                      WA$.

                      Comment

                      • Bob
                        Bob
                        Aerophile
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 3586

                        If no smoking gun, how about a old rusty trombone?...
                        Under my gruff exterior lies an even gruffer interior...

                        行雲流水

                        Warbirdskies Blog

                        Comment

                        • Creaking Door
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 9720

                          Do trombones have serial numbers?

                          As was said above: 'there is a new book that makes a very convincing case that Miller went down in the Channel'...

                          ...my response to that would be: 'is there any evidence whatsoever that he didn't'?

                          And if there isn't any evidence then we are dealing with unfounded speculation and conspiracy theories; cover-ups over his supposed death in a Paris brothel and other such nonsense!

                          And no evidence is ever going to satisfy the people supporting these nonsensical theories...

                          ...trombones, engines or complete aircraft can be 'planted' in the Channel you see!

                          WA$.

                          Comment

                          • Sabrejet
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 1645

                            Not sure TIGHAR has ever 'planted' anything, but who knows? And a book that makes a convincing case that Miller ['s aircraft] went down in the Channel would be about as useful as a book that tells you the Tower of London is in London!! Well duh - where else did the aircraft crash and no-one noticed?

                            Comment

                            • Creaking Door
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 9720

                              I wasn't accusing TIGHAR, or anybody else, of 'planting' evidence...

                              ...rather that any actual evidence found will never be accepted by the conspiracy theorists as anything other than proof that the 'conspiracy' is extremely well thought-out (with planted evidence), involves just about everybody, and goes 'right to the top'!

                              It will also 'prove' that the conspiracy theorist is much smarter than the rest of us.....not to be taken-in by it!
                              Last edited by Creaking Door; 14th January 2019, 11:34.
                              WA$.

                              Comment

                              • John Green
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 6589

                                As a serious and dedicated observer of the 'human condition' I've paused over this matter for some considerable time but, cannot now rein in my impulse to comment. Wellington 285 makes a valuable observation that perhaps will point the more obstinately devoted researcher in the direction of the truth.

                                My friend Sid who, when he is not tending his allotment, is a professional psychic, said that the suggestion that Mr. Miller, a band leader famous for, among other compositions, The Chattanooga Choo Choo collided, in his aeroplane with the sea just off Portland Bill, has much merit. Sid said that in keeping with many reported sightings of not only the Marie Celeste but also the Flying Dutchman sailing ships just off the Bill, that this area is like Area 51 a hotbed of psychic phenomena and worthy therefore of continued investigation.

                                It is Sid's theory that Mr. Miller's aircraft was drawn - as the moth to the flame - to the locality of Portland by irresistible psychic influences. Sid says that he is prepared to organise and lead a discovery mission in what he believes will be a completely successful attempt to find Mr. Miller's final resting place.

                                This will require some quite large funding. Sid is aware the Moderators frown on attempts to solicit funds thru' these forums unless of course ir is for something very worthwhile such as the Moderators Retirement Homes Scheme or, other Moderator charitable causes.

                                So, to deflect unworthy criticism, may I suggest that a new non partisan charity named on the basis of some marine activity such as angling eg. "Sharks Bite" or the small fish that attaches itself to the shark for a free ride; Suckers Rule" or, anything of similar description would suffice. Minimum donation; whatever you can uncomfortably afford. For all who contribute there will be a free gift package comprising Portland seaweed - for weather forecasting - bottled Portland water to be used during various incantations and a WW2 map of the area (synthetic) and aged by immersion in Portland seawater.

                                Sid says that this could be the start of a whole new adventure investigating the altogether too sudden and perhaps psychic removal of Mr. Miller.

                                Comment

                                • Ian Hunt
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 213

                                  Er, ok, thanks Sid.

                                  Don't call us we'll be in touch.

                                  Comment

                                  • J Boyle
                                    With malice towards none
                                    • Oct 2004
                                    • 9588

                                    Has anyone checked track 29?
                                    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                    Comment

                                    • jack windsor
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2008
                                      • 884

                                      hi,
                                      if a oyster bed is in the vicinity, a string of them could lead the way...

                                      Comment

                                      • D1566
                                        Needs retiring.
                                        • Apr 2006
                                        • 2073

                                        Out of interest I had a look online for news of Buccaneers (Fairey or otherwise) being found recently by pipeline survey teams, only thing I found was this;

                                        https://www.foxnews.com/science/wrec...-the-north-sea

                                        and

                                        https://www.nord-stream2.com/media/d...2017-06-28.pdf

                                        Both well known - are there any other recent discoveries?

                                        Which raises another question; if the C-64 was found, it would be a war grave thus immune from disturbance, by law?
                                        Martin

                                        Comment

                                        • MFowler
                                          Rank 4 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2018
                                          • 94

                                          D1566, as I understand UK law regarding crashed aircraft, the alleged Glenn Miller crash site would indeed be regarded as a war grave. Which would seem to preclude recovering anything for actual examination unless there was a very, very good reason to do so. I don't think TIGHAR wanting to raise it would rise to that level.
                                          Last edited by MFowler; 16th January 2019, 15:18.

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