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Glen Miller Wasn't Killed By RAF Lancasters?

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  • MFowler
    Rank 3 Registered User

    #61
    "The Glenn Miller Project is going to England!

    To conduct this research expedition well need to raise $25,000 by November 15, 2018. If were successful, all contributors to the Glenn Miller Research Fund will receive a video of the expedition.

    Contributors of $5,000 or more have the option of accompanying the expedition on all or any part of the trip.
    " according to the newest fundraising pitch on their website.

    No, you can't make this stuff up. Anyone have a spare five grand? I fancy sharing a pint or two with the expedition team ...

    Comment

    • Wellington285
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #62
      It is going to be a boring video. Hope the weather holds out for them (not)
      Ian

      Comment

      • MFowler
        Rank 3 Registered User

        #63
        I would like to see the budget for this "expedition" ... $25,000 that MUST be raised in the next month sounds suspiciously like the "$20,000 in a month" campaigns Gillespie launched so he could raise money to go out and raise money for the last "expedition" to Nikumaroro (which ended up piggybacking on someone else's trip when Gillespie's efforts came to naught).

        NO accounting was ever given for the $50,000-plus Gillespie raised through those efforts, nor was an accounting for how much was siphoned off for the all-important "operating costs."

        Doing a little searching for flights from the US to England, and reasonably nice lodgings, leads one to the conclusion that, 1) Either an awful lot of expensive searching equipment needs to be rented, or 2) Operating costs for sending a few people across the pond are extraordinarily high.

        Comment

        • J Boyle
          With malice towards none

          #64
          I note he is gowing in the "peak" tourist season when flights and accommodations are at their highest.
          Since I don't believe they are actually renting a boat to search the Channel (if they were, the budget would have to be considerably higher), I don't think the trip is weather dependent.
          So might wonder if they were trying to watch their penny es, why they don't go earlier or later in the year?
          Which leads me to believe that they will try to piggyback off the expected public and media interest next summer of the 75th anniversary of D-Day.

          Expect the fearless leader to say "What happened to Miller is the last great mystery of WWII"...or some such bombast.
          There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

          Comment

          • MFowler
            Rank 3 Registered User

            #65
            The latest from TIGHAR: "We haven't raised enough money yet but we're going anyway. The logistics for TIGHAR's December research expedition to England are now completed. Our team will be made up of TIGHAR Executive Director, TIGHAR Researcher Ernie Leroy, and TIGHAR video cameraman and drone pilot Mark Smith."

            Interesting ... Gillespie said they needed to raise $25,000 to fund this very modest effort? And Mark Smith ... isn't he the same person who just got appointed to TIGHAR's board of directors? ... and wasn't he the videographer on the Niku VIII expedition, you know, the one where they solicited member's donations to make a video of the expedition? The video that never happened. And that refunds haven't been given on (nothing has been said one way or the other publicly)? Are we getting into self-dealing territory here?
            Last edited by MFowler; 18th November 2018, 22:18.

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            • J Boyle
              With malice towards none

              #66
              Oh, they're bringing a drone!
              They must be high tech!
              That changes everything!

              Anyone care to speculate what a drone will tell them other than confirm that England is still on an island and the channel is still there?
              Last edited by J Boyle; 12th November 2018, 20:35.
              There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

              Comment

              • John Green
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #67
                I will send a donation because they are worth it. It would cost me about 25 at mu local Multiplex to get this much entertainment.

                Comment

                • MFowler
                  Rank 3 Registered User

                  #68
                  I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a glorified day trip costs $25,000. Seems like much of it is deliberately structured to give new board member Mark Smith something to do. Here is the schedule:
                  • Monday morning, December 10 - arrive London Heathrow, train to Yeovil near the museum.
                  • Monday afternoon, December 10 - at Fleet Air Arm Museum to video interview the fisherman who briefly hauled up the wreck suspected of being the Miller aircraft.
                  • Tuesday, December 11 - confirmed appointment at HM Hydrographic Office with archivist to determine if the British government already knows about a wreck in that location.
                  • Wednesday, December 12 - drive to the Channel coast to get drone footage of Portland Bill and check on availability of vessels for a possible search.
                  • Thursday morning, December 13 - assessment of research results.
                  • Thursday afternoon,December 13 - train to London Heathrow.
                  • Friday morning, December 14 - depart.
                  Last edited by MFowler; 12th November 2018, 23:52.

                  Comment

                  • Malcolm McKay
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #69
                    I wonder what the best estimate of the number of aircraft wrecks that lie in the English Channel is?

                    Comment

                    • J Boyle
                      With malice towards none

                      #70
                      Airfare for three from the east coast of the U.S....$5,000 If you go premium economy.

                      Four nights in hotel x three rooms =12 night rooms @$300 a night per room...$3600

                      ​​​​Rent car for 4 days plus fuel...$1000

                      Per diem...@$200 a day per person...$2400 (you can get a good meal for $60, right?)

                      Total $12,000

                      Couldn't you interview the fishermen via skype?
                      Can't you ask the Hydrographic office what they have via email?
                      I'm sure you could get drone video of the channel from any number of video production companies for less than you'd save in airfare.

                      I question their monetary need or their expenses...did they plan to fly first class?
                      It looks more like a trip to get video footage for fundraising/pr/propaganda.
                      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                      Comment

                      • John Green
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        #71
                        Best guesstimate - circa 5,000-7,000 wrecks. Total derived from combined losses of British, German and American aerial activity over five years.

                        Comment

                        • MFowler
                          Rank 3 Registered User

                          #72
                          JBoyle said, It looks more like a trip to get video footage for fundraising/pr/propaganda.

                          I think we have a Bingo! Your suggested budget also fits with Gillespie's well-known practice of tacking on at least 20-25% to each "expedition" or "research trip" for operating costs. This jaunt is only three people - Gillespie, Smith and another guy identified as a TIGHAR Researcher who, based on the requirements Gillespie set forth, had to have ponied up at least $5,000 for the privilege of going on this "research expedition." No mention anywhere of how much of his $83,000-plus salary Gillespie is contributing.

                          Right now he needs every penny he can find .... got a biggggggg bill coming due in December (which he has not been talking about, at all, untypically).
                          Last edited by MFowler; 13th November 2018, 16:19.

                          Comment

                          • MFowler
                            Rank 3 Registered User

                            #73
                            J Boyle asked, "Couldn't you interview the fishermen via skype? Can't you ask the Hydrographic office what they have via email?"

                            Nope. That's not how Gillespie does things. Doing things the most cost-effective way doesn't yield the dramatic video and first-person encounters that give you the stuff you need for the really serious fund-raising. Gotta' have that dramatic video and those thrilling photos so you can show your members that you are doing something. I've seen this time and again with TIGHAR.

                            Comment

                            • wl745
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #74
                              Whats the point?

                              Comment

                              • J Boyle
                                With malice towards none

                                #75
                                What's the point?

                                Exactly.

                                Their entire operation seems to be based on what a fisherman says he brought up years ago. From what I've read, he's not sure of the type or location.

                                It's the same sort of (somewhat) plausible but can never be proven theory that the group counted on for years. Make a media splash and then tell members ..."if you give just a little bit more... the mystery can be solved and you can tell people you played a part. "

                                The fact the group has known about the fisherman's tale for years but has waited until next summer to do anything should tell you all you need to know about their agenda.
                                By all means delay a search until everyone's memories are faded, that there is less steel tube/fabric/wood wreck to be found (if it was there in the first place) but wait until the 75th anniversary of the loss which will neatly coincide with media interest in the D-Day anniversary.

                                I hate to sound cynical, but if you've read about the group's 30 year search for Amelia Earhart the story is depressingly familiar.
                                Last edited by J Boyle; 20th November 2018, 16:54.
                                There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                Comment

                                • MFowler
                                  Rank 3 Registered User

                                  #76
                                  J Boyle said, "I hate to sound cynical, but if you've read about the group's 30 year search for Amelia Earhart the story is depressingly familiar."

                                  Depressingly true. As the well-know acronym goes, TIGHAR's Glenn Miller search is just more of the SSDD. TIGHAR has spent more than $8.2 million since 2000, with almost $2.3 million of that going directly to Ric Gillespie and his wife, Pat Thrasher. More than 27 % of the money spent has gone solely to their salaries. Yet - Gillespie has not found a single verified piece of any of the aircraft he has searched for.

                                  Although he has unearthed a great deal of information about the fate of Amelia Earhart, few of his conclusions have been verified or supported by outside experts, and some (perhaps most) of the "artifacts" TIGHAR has found on the island where Gillespie thinks Earhart and Noonan ended up can be attributed to other people/groups. The most recent example of that is a sextant box, which for decades Gillespie attributed to Noonan, but which it has now been conclusively proven originated with a later US Navy survey of the island.

                                  Calling this trip to England a "research expedition" is puzzling, at the least. Its primary purpose seems to be to gather videotape and drone footage to be used for future fund-raising.
                                  Last edited by MFowler; 22nd November 2018, 15:51.

                                  Comment

                                  • Beermat
                                    1 Registered Rank Loser

                                    #77
                                    From recent experience of discussions with our transatlantic cousins it seems likely that there will be people who really don't think we have email or videoconferencing and further believe that our 'government' - or rather our civil service in Taunton (he seems confused as to which) will tell an American if they ask in person what they would not put on public record.

                                    Or perhaps he expects people to believe that someone at the Hydro office will say 'Cor blimey, luv a duck, you're right, we have a grid reference right here down the back of the jolly old sofa but we were too busy drinkin tea and bowing to the Queen to notice! So glad you Americans have come over to sort us out'!

                                    This man is preying on ignorance - I'll not be buying him a pint if I met him.
                                    Last edited by Beermat; 25th November 2018, 16:25.
                                    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
                                    It's all good. Probably.

                                    Comment

                                    • J Boyle
                                      With malice towards none

                                      #78
                                      Sadly he doesn't seem to need your buying him a pint.
                                      The club seems to have a few wealthy benefactors, from what I've read it seems there has been a couple of guys giving away money they inherited.

                                      Not to mention his own very healthy salary.

                                      Last edited by J Boyle; 26th November 2018, 04:09.
                                      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                      Comment

                                      • Wellington285
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #79
                                        Beermat a Miller Light beer would be appropriate.
                                        Ian
                                        Last edited by Wellington285; 27th November 2018, 15:19.

                                        Comment

                                        • MFowler
                                          Rank 3 Registered User

                                          #80
                                          J Boyle said, "Not to mention his own very healthy salary."

                                          I think "healthy salary" is a fair term for this situation. Even when TIGHAR was posting yearly losses on its tax forms, Gillespie managed to take home hefty salaries - an average of $142,783 yearly since 2000. That doesn't include the $276,000 in rent he's charged TIGHAR to use part of his various homes as his office.

                                          Since there has been no public announcement of how much the Glenn Miller Research Project has raised, although Gillespie has said it isn't enough, what, exactly, is he hoping to accomplish with this admittedly underfunded "research expedition"?

                                          Comment

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