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Glen Miller Wasn't Killed By RAF Lancasters?

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  • Supermarine305
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Glen Miller Wasn't Killed By RAF Lancasters?

    Of passing interest to historic aviation. The popular theory that Glen Miller's Norseman was struck from the sky by Lanc's jettesoned bombs is wrong.

    Link to Gruniad article.
  • Rosevidney1
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #2
    Hmmm. Someone has written a book. A national newspaper reports it but that doesn't make it true. Colour me sceptical!

    Comment

    • Kenneth
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Well, somebody says it's wrong, which doesn't necessarily have to mean that it is wrong. The Lancaster theory was conjured by Roy Nesbit in Aeroplane, IIRC? His research always seemed very sound to me. Less so the mix of airframe and "engine" (carburetor?) icing in the linked article...
      The Largest German-Language Aviation Forum on the Internet

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      • Moggy C
        Moderator

        #4
        The Guardian not being an acknowledged source of irrefutable aviation history knowledge I have added a '?' to the thread title. If the OP thinks this is unfair, feel free to contact me by PM.

        Moggy
        Moderator
        "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

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        • Supermarine305
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          Point me toward any national news organisation that is of 'irrefutable aviation history knowledge'.

          I ran across this story and I though it had some legs, notwithstanding the impending book publication. There is a thread somewhere about the jettisoned bomb theory and perhaps in hindsight I should have tacked my comment onto the end of that.
          Last edited by Supermarine305; 29th August 2017, 19:03.

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          • Stepwilk
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            Dennis Spragg may be a historian but he's obviously a nonpilot and not particularly knowledgeable about aviation. If you're on the ground looking up at a Norseman cruising at 5,000 feet, does it look like "an indistinct flyspeck"? Hardly. But that's what Spragg claims a Norseman seen from 5,000 feet above would appear to be. Also, the primary danger from icing is not that "it makes the engine stop working properly." That would be carburetor ice.

            Comment

            • Rosevidney1
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #7
              Sorry Supermarine I should have written my post a little more thoughtfully. I was not accusing you personally for promoting the story. :-)

              Comment

              • paulmcmillan
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Not really in the mood for this thread
                Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

                Comment

                • posart
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  “He was flying too low – below 2,000 ft – and he exposed aircraft to icy conditions. Ice will cause the engine to stop working properly. The only other rational explanation is that he just flew into the water because he couldn’t see.
                  This quote is taken from the author's text in the article, but as far as I remember from conversations with Roy Nesbit when I painted the scene, the weather was crystal clear over the Channel that day. People just assume that because Glenn Miller took off in poor weather, it persisted for the entire journey, which it didn't. Roy was an experienced wartime RAF navigator and was very thorough in his investigation into the met and timings etc so in my opinion his theory is much more credible.

                  Mark P

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                  • Meddle
                    Rank Bajin.

                    #10
                    Couldn't TIGHAR apply some of That Old Black Magic here and try and locate the wreck? Maybe they just aren't In The Mood? I'm sure being taken out by a bomb from a Lancaster was not Glenn's idea of a Moonlight Serenade? Apparently he was heard to comment on The Nearness of You, to the Lancaster crews, as the bombs reigned down on his aircraft prior to a loud Boom Shot was reported. Maybe he should have been flying a Catalina instead, or some other form of American Patrol aircraft.

                    Alright I'm done here.

                    Comment

                    • J Boyle
                      With malice towards none

                      #11
                      My problem with the bomb theory is the report that the RAF crews saw the event and never reported the incident.

                      Is that accurate?
                      If so, it doesn't say much for the bomber crew(s) involved.
                      One would bope they'd report the incident so a search could be conducted.
                      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                      Comment

                      • Supermarine305
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        #12
                        Rosevidnesy: That's fine. I should have added the usual caveat that I have in no way anything to do with this book. The article just happened to have something about an aviation mystery to it.

                        At $35 I am not going to be the one to judge how well researched it is. I am not that keen on Miller.

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                        • Newforest
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          Glen Miller's plane found? This headline appeared a few years ago, what was the outcome?
                          http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

                          Comment

                          • D1566
                            Needs retiring.

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Newforest
                            Glen Miller's plane found? This headline appeared a few years ago, what was the outcome?
                            Wasn't that someone claiming to have found it and for just 20,000, they would share the location?
                            Martin

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                            • Snapper
                              "The goatboy done good."

                              #15
                              It's Guardian. Not Gruniad. That's not even an anagram.

                              Sorry, pet hate. Same as Daily Fail et al. I just can't take anything seriously with that kind of sneering.
                              Some of my best friends are imaginary

                              Comment

                              • Nachtjagd
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                #16
                                I remember seeing the interview with the former (Australian?) navigator on TV several years ago. He had trained in Canada and had flown in Noorduyn Norseman aircraft so he knew the unusual (and distinctive) type very well. If he says he recognized one flying low-ish over the sea in reasonably good weather from around 5-6,000 ft then that's good enough for me. I think he also said that only he and the tail gunner noticed it, they reported it at debriefing but were later told not to mention it again. The interview is probably out there on youtube somewhere.

                                As for the Gruniad - didn't that name come into being due to a hilarious (deliberate?) misprint of their own newspaper title some years back?
                                Last edited by Nachtjagd; 30th August 2017, 12:21.
                                A Thousand Shall Fall

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                                • Trolly Aux
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  I bet a new film will be made so the story need to fit the films ending, cheaper than hiring a Lanc
                                  SMOKE SMOKE GO!
                                  TA out

                                  Comment

                                  • markb
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    #18
                                    Grauniad is a Private Eye invention, making fun of the high level of typographic errors found in the paper many years ago.

                                    Comment

                                    • Supermarine305
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      And typos a-plenty can still be found.

                                      Anyway, just moving on, regretting posting this threa and all. A little searching found this on the Daily Mail. Not 'fail' Snapper, no matter how apt.

                                      Long story short, over fives years ago the self same Daniel Spragg considers a note jotted by a 17-year-old near Reading of a Norsemen flying ESE was key against the jettisoned bombs theory.That's just weak.
                                      Last edited by Supermarine305; 30th August 2017, 16:20. Reason: typo fix.

                                      Comment

                                      • Snapper
                                        "The goatboy done good."

                                        #20
                                        Education is good - I felt a bit sneery myself with the comment BUT I've learnt some cool stuff so thank you!
                                        Some of my best friends are imaginary

                                        Comment

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