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Spitfire Crash - 1941? France?

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    #21
    Surely fabric ailerons discount a Mk V?
    Well, not entirely- some early Vs (including Vas) were built with early oil cooler AND fabric ailerons. (A little while after I posted I remembered the callout of fabric ailerons in the first post.) Still, the oil cooler might be a good corroboration. I don't see any evidence of cannon in the wing, though I'll put more faith in other people's interpretation of that detail.

    Also, is not the center "dot" of the roundel the proportion associated with Supermarine, and not Castle Bromwich? If so, that (likely) eliminates the Mk.II...

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      #22
      Interesting note on the roundel...never knew that. I do note that early 1941 a number of aircraft were being repainted in the grey and green camouflage scheme. Would this have retained the original roundels or were they a complete repaint? Difficult to tell what scheme the pictured aircraft is in?

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        #23
        I think mid-August 1941 is the correct date for the change of scheme. Looking at the photo, the dark appearance of the red in the roundel, and the overall dark appearance of the upper (or at least side!) surfaces suggest the earlier scheme photographed on orthochromatic film.

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          #24
          Its not orthochromatic film. Ortho film darkens yellows so that they come out black. This is not the case here.

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            #25
            145 Squadron Va ("SO") is a possibility?

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              #26
              Indeed so! Another possibility to check. Thank you.
              Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

              A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

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                #27
                And don't dismiss any squadron codes ending in 'U', if there are any. That apparent curve near the ground indicating a D or O could just be a bend in the skin or a piece of wreckage in the way.

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                  #28
                  P7977 SO-G.

                  Mark




                  .
                  Last edited by Mark12; 7th August 2017, 13:38.
                  "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney"

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                    #29
                    That doesn't work as a loss with 145 Sqn, but it was lost near Gosnay with 485 Sqn (OU codes) on 19 August 1941. Spitfire IIa.

                    Too much of a stretch, perhaps, to imagine that P7977 retained its 'G' letter when it went to 485? Seems unlikely. Plus, 485s pattern/style of squadron codes seems much different.
                    Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

                    A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

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                      #30
                      A good point but Ortho darkens red - there just happens to be an orange tint to MAP Yellow. However, there are photos that show the same trend on the Red and Dark Earth yet leaves the Yellow light: whether this is caused by a filter that has much the same effect on the red as ortho film or a filter used with ortho that affects the yellow too, I can't say. It would be unusual, I grant you, to have ortho film in German use; it seems to have been more a British thing.

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                        #31
                        What does the W/T denote on the tailplane, something all Spitfires had ?
                        Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

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                          #32
                          Electrically bonded for Wireless telegraphy.

                          John

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                            #33
                            Thanks, I thought it must be something simple
                            Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

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                              #34
                              Just another one to throw in- what about 1 Squadron RCAF with codes YO? It appears they converted from Hurricanes in Sept '41.
                              Armchair enthusiast, but also a fan of sofas and recliners.

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                                #35
                                This is likely 222 sqn Spitfire (ZD - G), see the very similar G on another downed 222 sqn Spitfire in 1941 - Sg. Ptacek, Aug 19, 1941, see http://www.conscript-heroes.com/Art0...tacek-960.html.
                                If there is another loss documented in mid 1941, we are looking at the replacement aircraft.

                                Best. David S.

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                                  #36
                                  Thank you for suggesting that possibility.

                                  An initial sweep of 222 Sqn losses has not thrown anything up.
                                  Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

                                  A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

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                                    #37
                                    Sorry if I'm missing something, but isn't the date on the back 1940, not 1941, and doesn't the location simply translate as 'crash near Amiens? I doubt this helps, but hope it does.

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                                      #38
                                      You are correct in that it says '1940' and it appears to be 'bei Desvres' or 'bei Amiens' - or something like that. Tricky to read. That said, there seems to be an accent over the name of the location.

                                      However, there are problems with the year given the sky band on the fuselage and the heavy foliage on trees and hedges. That places it in summer. More logically, then, that ought to be summer 1941?
                                      Last edited by Tangmere1940; 17th April 2018, 11:47.
                                      Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

                                      A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

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                                        #39
                                        Ah, as I suspected, I missed something - sorry!

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                                          #40
                                          Interesting photograph the Staff car looks Mercedes, it's funny but the aircraft looks like its just be gently laid on the grass no disturbance even under the wing
                                          Pedantic I haven't been that for 4 minutes 36 secs
                                          http://www.arc-design-it.co.uk

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