Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • ianwoodward9
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2010
    • 806

    I have not been able to contribute here for quite a while but appreciate the postings that have been made in the last couple of weeks. Thanks.

    Comment

    • robstitt
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 37

      My contact in Newfoundland says:

      I would rule Gander out as a location for the photo. The two Ferry Command hangars (which still exist) were of a different shape and style. There were other hangars on the USAAF and RCAF sides of the airfield, but again, I'm not seeing a match, and no treeline ran that close to any of them... I suppose if the a/c got diverted because of wx, for example, it could be another airfield in Atlantic Canada.

      Robert

      Comment

      • Lazy8
        Adrian Constable
        • Apr 2012
        • 563

        BOAC's LB.30s flew into and out of Gander, direct to Montreal (Dorval), and occasionally Preque Isle. So it's not Gander, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Dorval. I don't know Presque Isle, but that was more of a diversion for the BOAC aircraft, and there doesn't seem to be much of a recorded reason for so many Liberators to be there (or anywhere much else) together, although as you say the weather is the most likely culprit. The context suggests the photo is in Canada, but if it was in the UK one struggles similarly to pin it down. It isn't Prestwick, and while deliveries ended up in all sorts of places due to weather, dodgy navigation and so forth, again placing such a large group is problematic.
        One other possibility is that, on the Canadian side, the RFS aircraft had met an eastbound delivery further 'inland' for some reason. Such flights are poorly documented, but it was apparently not unusual for aircraft to be flown deeper into Canada and America for a variety of reasons. They were supported by TCA once on the far side of the Pond, and flight records were either not kept at all, or if they were they didn't get back to BOAC. While RFS aircraft were sometimes used for such activities, it was much more common for a Hudson to be appropriated from a trans-Atlantic delivery flight, and retained for weeks or months as an unofficial 'liaison' aircraft. At least one such Hudson is believed to have visited Washington DC on a fairly regular basis, and one may have gone all the way back to California.

        Comment

        • robstitt
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 37

          Dartmouth and Sydney, Nova Scotia, were used for weather diversions by larger aircraft but I don't know to what degree the forest encroached on either. As you suggest, it's hard to imagine that many examples being in one place unless it was one of the regularly used bases/destinations.

          Robert

          Comment

          • ianwoodward9
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2010
            • 806

            Many of you have more knowledge of the history of individual Liberators than I do but let me toss into this pot what I do have. My principal sources are A.J. Jackson, writing in 1959, and Peter Moss, writing in 1975, but they differ on some of the specific detail. The fruits of later research may therefore support or correct the following.

            I apologise in advance for the length of this posting.

            A.J. Jackson wrote that the first batch of Liberator I aircraft for the RAF [AM258 AM263] was delivered in March 1941 to Dorval, where they were modified for the transatlantic work. The first of these [AM258] was registered as G-AGCD on 19 April 1941 but made the first east-bound crossing, still as AM258, on 4 May 1941, arriving at Squires Gate. Its Certificate of Airworthiness was issued on 15 May 1941, so presumably the G-AGCD markings would have been applied at or soon after this date [but see below].

            Jackson also said that AM259, AM262 and AM263 were part of BOACs complement of Liberators in the middle of 1942 but makes no specific reference to the other two aircraft in that initial batch [namely, AM260 and AM261]

            Jackson also wrote that the second batch of RAF Liberators was made up of AM918 - AM929, of which only one [AM918] was allocated a civilian registration in wartime [G-AGDR]. He noted that AM918 and AM920 were on BOACs books in mid-1942 but this is obviously inaccurate, as AM918/G-AGDR was shot down in February 1942.

            Jackson gives AM918/G-AGDR as c/n 9. It was registered as G-AGDR on 3 January 1942 [the c/n being shown as F.677, incidentally] and its Certificate of Airworthiness was issued on 5 January 1942. Peter Moss said that it flew the first non-stop flight from Hurn to Cairo on 25/26 January 1942 [Jackson said at the end of January, specified Almaza as the destination and gave the duration of the flight as 11 hours]. Both say that it was downed on its return flight on 15 February 1942. This means that the opportunity to photograph it in its G-AGDR guise could well have been limited to the period from 5 January 1942 to 25 January 1942. Do the BOAC records give any indication as to its movements in that period? Would it have made a stopping flight to Egypt before the inaugural non-stop flight, for example?

            Both authors wrote that G-AGCD then continued the service alone, Moss saying that it flew the second outbound service from Lyneham to Egypt on 14 July 1942 and that 24 more flights in each direction were completed without mishap until the service was suspended on December 10.

            The two are in broad agreement about the starting arrangements for the Cairo service. Jackson wrote that G-AGCD and G-AGDR were detached from the Atlantic route and used their civil markings for direct flights non-stop to Egypt. Moss wrote that in January 1942, two [Liberators] were taken off the NARFS and painted up as G-AGCD and G-AGDR, while a third was held in reserve as G-AGDS. Ill come on to G-AGDS in a moment.

            Let me first consider G-AGCD .

            The Moss version suggests that, despite being registered as G-AGCD back in May 1941, it did not actually take on this guise until January 1942. What do BOACs records show? Did it actually stay as AM259 from May to December 1941? Was it used as AM259 or as G-AGCD on the NARFS in 1941? And, if longshot is right about that group photo including G-AGCD, how does that fit into the chronology?

            The dates given by Peter Moss suggest that G-AGCD was part of the Cairo service from January 1942 but didnt actually fly the route until July 1942? Did it not fly at all in that six month period? Or, having been painted up as G-AGCD in January 1942 [and perhaps awaiting some kind of clearance to re-commence the Cairo service following the downing of G-AGDR], did it go back to the NARFS and fly transatlantic as G-AGCD for this period? And does that help in any way to date or locate the group photo of the line of Libs?

            Moving now to G-AGDS [the reserve Cairo route aircraft], this was the former AM263, the sixth of the initial batch of Liberators mentioned by Jackson. It was registered as G-AGDS on 26 January 1942, which is consistent with the Moss dating for the Cairo service being about to start. However, Jackson says it was not given a Certificate of Airworthiness and returned to the RAF in August 1944. Its registration document, on the other hand, says it was taken off the civil register 19.8.42 (Reduce to Produce)?. However, Moss says that An order dated September 1942 directed that four civil Liberators should revert to Service markings and says that the four included G-AGCD and G-AGDS. So, there seems to be doubt as to the longevity and fate of G-AGDS. And why, if it was the reserve for the service to Egypt, did it apparently never get to replace G-AGDR and to supplement G-AGCD on the route?

            And there are questions about G-AGCD, too. If ordered back to Service markings in September 1942, how come it single-handedly operated the Cairo service, presumably as G-AGCD not AM259, from July to December 1942? When did it actually return to its military markings?

            Moss reported that the UK to Cairo service was reopened on 27 February 1943 by BOAC Liberators but without specifying which particular aircraft were used.

            Once again, I apologise for the length of the above and give my thanks for getting this far. I hope I havent made any howlers along the way.

            Comment

            • Lazy8
              Adrian Constable
              • Apr 2012
              • 563

              One long answer deserves another...

              BOAC's records for the Liberator fleet are incomplete, unfortunately. I've tried to fill the gaps, but it's still work in progress - I don't have a complete picture yet either, and there are many contradictions as well as gaping holes.

              For that first group of RAF LB.30 deliveries:
              AM258 was a BOAC/RFS stalwart, but it's early history is confused as it's military serial was also issued in error to Catalina NC777 'Guba' which BOAC bought commercially at about the same time the LB.30 order was being finalised. It seems likely that Liberator AM258 was one of the aircraft that inaugurated the Return Ferry Service, under the control of AtFerO, on 4 May 1941.
              AM259 was delivered by an RAF crew overnight 13-14 March 1941 to Squires Gate for modification for BOAC (all the initial BOAC LB.30s were modified at Squires Gate, not Dorval). It appears to have been the first four-engined landplane to cross the Atlantic. It actually joined the BOAC fleet on 19 April 1941. Although this is also the documented date of it's registration as G-AGCD, there is no record of when the civil marks were painted on the aircraft, and subsequent BOAC, and other, records refer to it only as AM259. John Stroud recorded it as having flown the second Liberator operation to Cairo, marked as G-AGCD, in July 1942, and others have taken this to mean it was the possible second aircraft on the January operation. Whilst some records suggest that AGDR was not alone on the January operation, I currently think the accompanying aircraft was not AGCD.
              AM260 does not seem to have flown for BOAC at all.
              AM261 would not have been part of BOAC's fleet in mid-1942, as it crashed on Goat Fell on the Isle of Arran on 10 August 1941.
              AM262 flew, as it's first RFS operation, the first westbound RFS services, from Ayr (which at that time had a concrete runway, whereas Prestwick was still a grass strip) on 29 May 1941. This would have enabled a greater takeoff weight than previously, so this would appear to be the first RFS flight to carry freight (so with a plywood floor in the 'hold' - Luxury!)
              AM263 does not appear in records until 1 June 1941. BOAC records say it was returned to the RAF on 19 August 1944, but 'someone' apparently carried on flying it on the trans-Atlantic routes until it was written off in a ground collision with an RAF Dakota at Lagens in the Azores on 30 November 1944.

              I think part of the confusion lies in the difference between ownership/operation and markings. BOAC operated the Return Ferry Service for most of the time it existed, and provided support in terms of things like pilot training and weather forecasting even before that for the Atlantic Ferry Organisation. This does not mean the RFS aircraft all had civil identities. BOAC operated quite a large number of aircraft in military markings during the war. However, BOAC was under RAF control for all of this time, and aircraft could be detached from 'normal' operations at the drop of the proverbial hat to go and do other things. For the Liberator fleet this meant mostly flying to Cairo and Moscow. Towards the end of the war the RFS aircraft came under the control of RAF Transport Command, but were still 100% a BOAC operation, despite having full RAF markings and Transport Command codes.

              Across the whole BOAC operation, civil markings were considered appropriate if the aircraft was flying where there was no fighting; RAF markings were used when the route crossed or skirted an area where hostilities were actively in progress, or considered likely. An obvious exception was the flights to neutral Sweden, crossing occupied Norway, where civil markings were required as a military-marked aircraft (and crew) would have been interned. From time to time aircraft were taken out of service for a day or two to be 'militarised' in order to fly a particular route, and a while later, probably at their next major service, they were 'demilitarised'. The changes were generally minimal, often little more than a change of paint. In the early days of the war this change of marking was ordered for individual aircraft on an almost daily basis, to Imperial, and later BOAC's, intense annoyance.

              Although Certificates of Airworthiness were of obviously of some importance (!), they were not apparently issued for the entire Liberator fleet, and some of their requirements could be ignored anyway, as the RFS was under military control. This was not the case for, e.g. the BOAC Dakota fleet, despite them also being (partly) militarised, and I have yet to understand why there's a difference. The 'oversight' was rectified when the Return Ferry Service was demilitarised on 30 September 1946, which resulted in the Liberators suddenly becoming unable to carry passengers. After a period trying to run an trans-Atlantic fast parcel service with them, BOAC dropped the type. Scottish Aviation, who had done most of the BOAC Liberator servicing in the UK and were thus Lib 'enthusiasts', thought they could make a go of the service where BOAC couldn't, hence Scottish Airlines use of the aircraft, but sadly they were wrong.

              Comment

              • ianwoodward9
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Aug 2010
                • 806

                Many thanks, Adrian, for such a speedy and full response. It is appreciated but it will take me a while to absorb it all. I will come back in due course but, meanwhile, a couple of brief comments.

                When writing my previous post, it had struck me that, while G-AGDR started the Cairo service but was shot down on the return flight, it was unlikely that G_AGCD would be 'idle' for several months and therefore that therefore it may not have been seconded to the Cairo service at the very outset.

                Thanks for reminding me about the Goat Fell crash, by the way.

                The impression I gain is that most of the BOAC Liberators on the ATFERO or RFS services retained their military serial numbers and markings but particular aircraft were given civil registrations and markings when they were to be used on services involving neutral countries, where there was no active fighting. And, the chopping and changing between military and civilian guises [and back again] could be more frequent than I had previously imagined. Have I picked this up correctly?

                Comment

                • longshot
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 1676

                  The early RFS/BOAC Liberators were LB-30 type and I believe had integral fuel tanks (i.e. the wing box structure was sealed as a tank...was it a first example?)) but in 1943 BOAC were supplied with some later longer nosed Liberator models with self-sealing tanks (registered G-AGJ... and G-AGK.... I've read that these were nicknamed 'self-leaking' tanks by BOAC staff...perhaps Adrian can expand or correct that story?

                  Comment

                  • Lazy8
                    Adrian Constable
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 563

                    There were two distinct fleets of Liberators in use on the Atlantic run, operated by BOAC.
                    The one that everyone thinks of operated the North Atlantic Return Ferry Service, generally known simply as the RFS. This used LB.30s almost exclusively, supported at the UK end by Scottish Aviation and at the Canadian end by Trans Canada Airlines at Dorval. UK base moved about a bit, but was usually either Prestwick or Lyneham, with occasional periods at other places such as Ayr. BOAC had no use for Liberators with superchargers on this route, as they added some 1500lbs weight and resulted in higher fuel consumption, and the increased performance they provided was of no value crossing the Atlantic. Consolidated spent much of the war trying to persuade BOAC to accept some nice, shiny, new B-24Ds or later in exchange for the LB.30s, but BOAC weren't interested. This was the cause of some friction.
                    There weren't enough round-engined Liberators to go round, though, as the RAF came to much the same conclusion about range and so forth and diverted as many as they could of their LB.30s to anti-submarine patrols. BOAC were thus forced to accept some supercharged Liberators, and although they were used from Lyneham down to Lisbon and onward to Cairo, for the most part they put these to use on the southern Atlantic route (Caribbean-Africa), where they were handily based at Nassau, on the same airfield as 111 (Liberator) OTU, RAF, which simplified the maintenance. It also apparently meant that they shared aircraft rather more than a historian looking back on it would like... There's a lot more to be uncovered about that side of the operation, but it's an area in which I've just scratched the surface. Other supercharged Liberators allocated to BOAC were diverted instead to QANTAS, and towards the end of the war they replaced the Catalinas on the famous 'Double Sunrise' route between Ceylon and Australia.

                    As for the "self-leaking" tanks, my understanding is that the LB.30/B-24 was designed with them from the outset, but that Consolidated initially had some considerable difficulty making them fuel tight even in the factory, let alone under operational conditions. BOAC did not expect to be shot at, so the extra weight and reduced fuel capacity inherent in self-sealing tanks were not required, but proper integral tanks would have been useful. However, they *really* had no interest in anything that added any extra weight, so declined the opportunity to add copious amounts of sealant to the tanks, and just put up with the leaks, which were generally not too bad.

                    Comment

                    • ianwoodward9
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 806

                      I just recalled that, some time ago, Matt kindly sent me a lot of details about individual Liberators. I have taken the information about AM259 / G-AGCD, changed the layout to present it vertically and made a couple of fairly minor typographical changes. Other than that, what you see below is how it came to me:

                      AM259 / G-AGCD
                      c/n 2 = ex 40-697;
                      1941-02-00 = used for handling and performance parameter trials at San Diego
                      1941-02-15 = San Diego > La Guardia
                      1941-02-23 = La Guardia > St Hubert, where TOC the same day
                      1941-03-05 = St Hubert > Gander
                      1941-03-05/13 = held at Gander by bad weather
                      1941-03-13 = dep Gander
                      1941-03-14 = arr Squires Gate [first Liberator to reach UK, crewed by Wg Cdr Waghorn and Flt Lt Summers]
                      --------------- = allocated to MoEW
                      1941-03-26 = DGRD Hatfield
                      1941-04-01 = DGRD Heston
                      1941-04-08 = DGRD Handley Page
                      1941-04-19 = reg'd G-AGCD to BOAC (CoR 9312)
                      --------------- = to Northolt for civil conversion
                      1941-04-28 = conversion completed
                      1941-05-04/05 = A&AEE handling trials at Boscombe Down by Capt J H Orrell
                      1941-05-06/13 = dispersed to Colerne/Charmy Down
                      1941-05-15 = CoA (6884) issued
                      --------------- = MoEW use abandoned due to airfield limitations in Sweden
                      1941-07-01 = to BOAC for use on Return Ferry Service
                      1942-07-14 = made special UK > Cairo flight 14.7.42, then ret'd to RFS
                      1942-08-24 = reg'n cancelled
                      1942-10-21/29 = made first Prestwick > Moscow return flight
                      --------------- = other Moscow flights to 7.4.43
                      1943-04-07 = reverted to AM259
                      1943-05-15 = damaged at Prestwick
                      1943-06-23 = ret'd to BOAC 23.6.43 [reg'n restored on unknown date]
                      --------------- = again used on Russian and special services as G-AGCD
                      1944-01-03/11 = made special UK > Cairo return flight
                      1944-07-06 = ret'd to RAF as AM259 for 45 Gp Comm Sqn
                      1944-09-08 = 231 Sqn
                      1945-11-07 = SOC at Dorval


                      Last edited by ianwoodward9; 16th December 2018, 15:49.

                      Comment

                      • ianwoodward9
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 806

                        I would like to make a few observations on the 'life' of AM259 / G-AGCD as presented in the above chronology:

                        [1] AM259/G-AGCD had a 'lifespan' of 4 years and 9 months but over half the above entries relate to its first 5 months only - and thus not much to its subsequent 'work record'.

                        [2] The chronology suggests it carried the G-AGCD markings in two periods - which [roughly] were:

                        [2A] April 1941 to April 1943

                        [2B] June/July 1943 to July 1944

                        [3] Peter Moss wrote that, in September 1942, four Libs [including G-AGCD] were directed to revert to service markings and it isn't clear how that fits the chronology

                        [4] AM259 was the first Liberator to come across the 'pond' but AM258's arrival at Squires Gate on 4 May 1941 marked the first RFS flight, consistent with Adrian's posting # 226. AM258's flight was described as "the first eastbound service" by A.J. Jackson [The flight time was 14.5 hours and the a/c carried 4 passengers and 200 lbs. of mail].

                        [5] A.J. Jackson also said the first six Liberators [AM258-263] "were delivered to Dorval, Montreal, in March 1941, and modified in readiness for experimental crossings". According to the above chronology, however, AM259 never went to Dorval at all in that period, let alone being "modified" there.

                        [6] Adrian said that, anyway, modifications were carried out at Squires Gate, not Dorval, but perhaps these were just mods to suit British use in general, as the chronology says that the "civil conversion" took place at Northolt.

                        [7] I'm sure someone will confirm but didn't BOAC operate the NARFS on behalf of No. 45 Group?

                        [8] 231 Squadron grew out of "45 Gp Comm Sq" and its aircraft were based at Dorval, so I guess AM259 more or less continued doing what it had been doing previously.

                        [9] In September 1945, 231 Squadron moved to Bermuda and was then disbanded in January 1946. Whether AM259 actually made the move to Bermuda or stayed in Dorval isn't clear.

                        As ever, comments and brickbats welcome
                        Last edited by ianwoodward9; 17th December 2018, 11:00.

                        Comment

                        • longshot
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 1676

                          Perhaps worth noting there are 6 Libs in the flickr photo...also is the 'photo-ship' a B-25...perhaps the same as this one? https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasma...7645345042686/ which route were the Dutch B-25s ferried in early 1942?

                          Comment

                          • ianwoodward9
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 806

                            Perhaps it would be possible to work out when those six aircraft in the 'Lib line-up' photo were operating the NARFS at the same time and even when they might have been in Canada around the same time.

                            The reference to considering AM259 for the Stockholm Run as early as mid-1941 is interesting. One of the books on the Stockholm Run says "six pre-production YB-24 aircraft .. had been ordered for ferry services" and that, on 26 November 1940, "the War Cabinet decided that one of these should be allocated to the Stockholm run". While there was political pressure to do at least one Stockholm trip before the end of the year, clearly no Lib would be available. When the Liberators did arrive, there was disagreement between the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Aircraft Production as to who would get the allocated aircraft.

                            At a meeting on 16 May 1941, both agreed each to give up a Hudson for the Liberator [i.e. two Hudsons for one Liberator] but which would get the Liberator? Meanwhile, BOAC didn't want to use the Liberator on the Stockholm run at all and put all manner of objections to delay things. At a meeting on 29 May 41 in the Air Ministry, it was decided to allocate the Hudson V [the MAP Hudson - AM707 was selected from RAF deliveries] to the route and that the Hudson III [the Air Ministry's Hudson] would not be released but that Super Elektra G-AGBG would continue to operate. This was all around the time that, according to the above chronology, the MoEW had decided that "airfield limitations" precluded the use of the Liberator, though the matter did apparently drag on a bit longer.

                            Hudson AM707 was assembled at Speke, flown to Bramcote and became G-AGCE. On 6 June 1941, it went to the A&AEE at Boscombe, on 7 June to Whitchurch to have a D/F loop fitted and on 8 June to Leuchars. It left for Stockholm the same day but had to turn back for technical reasons. Various modifications were attempted to improve its performance at altitude but, on 20 June, BOAC requested a Hudson III. The Hudson III [G-AGDC] made its first flight to Stockholm om 18 July 1941. Meanwhile, SOE, anxious about the delay and the growing backlog of personnel to bring to Britain, requested that the allocated Liberator be put on the service; instead, a second Hudson III was allocated. This was G-AGDF, which joined BOAC in late September and first flew to Stockholm on 18 October 1941. The Norwegian-owned Lodestars had started on the route in August, helping to ease the congestion..

                            I have found no other reference to the possible use of Liberators on the Stockholm service in this time period,

                            Comment

                            • robstitt
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 37

                              Ocean Bridge by Carl Christie is an excellent source for anything on Ferry Command, including BOAC's role, although it doesn't for the most part get down to the level of individual aircraft.

                              Below are flight details for AM259 for 1941 and 1942 from TNA records to dovetail with Matt's history. There are clearly some gaps as the east-west legs don't always alternate. The only records for AM259 also noted as G-AGCD are for trips to Moscow in October and November 1942.

                              First, a couple more details from the same records (?/? indicates an overnight crossing):

                              AM258 arrived at Prestwick [sic] after a May 4/5 crossing with Capt Bennett in command.

                              AM259 arrived Squires Gate after a March 13/14 crossing with Wg Cdr Waghorn in command - already covered by Matt, I see.

                              AM259:

                              1941

                              May 14: Gander-Squires Gate
                              October 7/8: Prestwick-Gander

                              1942
                              April 18: Prestwick-Gander
                              April 24: Montreal-Prestwick
                              April 25: Prestwick-Gander
                              May 1: Gander-Prestwick
                              May 2/3: Prestwick-Gander
                              May 10/11: Prestwick-Montreal
                              May 16: Gander Prestwick
                              May 18/19: Prestwick-Gander
                              May 23/24: Gander-Prestwick
                              May 25: Prestwick-Gander
                              June 4/5: Gander-Prestwick
                              June 8/9: Prestwick-Montreal
                              June 13/14: Gander-Prestwick
                              June 22/23: Gander-Prestwick
                              June 29/30: Gander-Prestwick
                              July 1 /2: Prestwick-Gander
                              July 4/5: Gander-Prestwick
                              July 6/7: Prestwick-Gander
                              July 14: Gander-Prestwick
                              August 21: Prestwick-Gander
                              August 25/26: Gander-Prestwick
                              September 19/20: Montreal-Prestwick
                              October 21/22: Prestwick-Moscow/Ramenskoye noted as AM259/G-AGCD
                              October 29: Moscow-Prestwick noted as AM259/G-AGCD
                              November 22: Prestwick-Moscow/Ramenskoye noted as AM259/G-AGCD
                              November 27: Moscow/Ramenskoye-Prestwick noted as AM259/G-AGCD
                              December 5: Prestwick-Gander
                              December 18: Gander-Prestwick

                              And so on to the last recorded flight:

                              December 18, 1944: Prestwick-Lagens
                              Last edited by robstitt; 18th December 2018, 20:47.

                              Comment

                              • ianwoodward9
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 806

                                Thanks for all that information, robstitt. I will, in due course incorporate it in my typed notes (various issues prevent that at the moment).

                                I have spent a little time scanning some American newspaper reports dating from the early part of 1941. Here are a couple of examples: [1] a passing reference to ferry aircraft helping in the search for the Bismarck and [2] a Catalina being ferried across helping in the rescue of the crew of a torpedoed ship. One report is of direct relevance.

                                It relates to a 'test' flight in the New York area on 21 February 1941, presumably a Liberator and presumably AM259. With luck, an image of the newspaper report will be attached
                                Last edited by ianwoodward9; 18th December 2018, 22:13.

                                Comment

                                • robstitt
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 37

                                  Ian,

                                  Can transcribe AM259's flights for 1943 and 1944 if of interest.

                                  Robert

                                  Comment

                                  • ianwoodward9
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2010
                                    • 806

                                    Robert,

                                    Thanks for the offer. Personally,, I would really love to see the information on AM259 for 1943 and 1944. I think it would be most interesting to build up a fuller picture of its work record.

                                    If the transcription process is time-consuming, there's no need to rush at it, though.. Most of us have other priorities at this time of year

                                    I will comment on the 1942 information in the near future.


                                    Ian

                                    Comment

                                    • ianwoodward9
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2010
                                      • 806

                                      Slightly off-topic but the attached photograph was published in Britain at the end of May 1941. It was in a WHERE AND WHAT section, with the answer in the next issue - which answered the WHAT [a Consolidated Liberator] but not the WHERE. The workmen look more American than British to me, so I'm guessing San Diego.

                                      Perhaps this is part of a photo that's been published in full elsewhere. Can anybody help?

                                      Comment

                                      • ianwoodward9
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2010
                                        • 806

                                        For anyone who hasn't read a first-hand, contemporary account of transatlantic air travel by Liberator in 1941 :-:


                                        https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%202889.html


                                        https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%202890.html


                                        https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%202891.html









                                        Comment

                                        • ianwoodward9
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2010
                                          • 806

                                          This is the report I meant to post last time, this from July 1941:


                                          https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...n%20liberators

                                          https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201600.html

                                          https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201601.html

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X