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RAF Museum Hendon - Closure / Dispersion of Battle of Britain Hall

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  • Beermat
    1 Registered Rank Loser
    • Oct 2009
    • 3643

    Relevance is all about the story you are trying to tell. So a 110 is relevant next to a Lancaster or a Hurricane. Whether in Britain, Germany or Ghana. If the story becomes muddled - losing a dedicated BoB hall is an example of this - then the relevance of the 'illustrations' is lost. Frankly, if its not telling the true story of the RAF - opponents and all - then I am not sure what it is for.
    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
    It's all good. Probably.

    Comment

    • NEEMA
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Feb 2013
      • 216

      RAFM Do24

      I am very willing to be corrected, but when it arrived (IIRC late 70's?) I seem to recall being told that it was on loan. This was about the time that "de facto" the RAFM was seeing itself as the core of a national collection, with the Do 24 offering an interesting technical contrast to the Stranraer.

      Comment

      • Creaking Door
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2006
        • 9863

        ...and the Elgin Marbles are more 'interesting' to the Greeks!

        Carry on with that particular train of thought and there's going to be no shortage of space in an awful lot of British museums and art-galleries!
        WA$.

        Comment

        • SADSACK
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 3482

          The Casa built Jungman was a gift from General Franco. Its relevance was dubious to say the least!
          pb::

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          • David Burke
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 10028

            Technically unique items I believe should be put where they belong. I imagine the vast majority of visitors have a minor interest in items like the Me410 and two seat FW190. I would much rather have aircraft like a Spitfire PRXI and the Cotton Lockheed Electra Junior in the collection.

            As to the Jungmann -it came to the U.K in return for assistance with the build of a Cierva C.30 in Spain.

            Comment

            • farnboroughrob
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2008
              • 617

              I have quite a bit of sympathy in the argument for returning significant aircraft to their homeland. given certain conditions. Sadly, because of history, the UK would not have a great deal to gain from such a policy.

              Comment

              • Creaking Door
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2006
                • 9863

                I would much rather have aircraft like a Spitfire PRXI...
                Yes, because what the RAF Museum really needs is a line-up of a dozen or so Spitfires...

                ...how is that going to interest 'the vast majority of visitors'?

                Sorry, but the RAF Museum cannot just be a dry mausoleum of every type of aircraft that the RAF has ever operated; yes, it would be my policy to obtain (or replicate) every one as the opportunity arose but not at the expense of other, in many cases unique, aircraft that the RAF did not operate...

                ...the story of the Spitfire cannot be told without the Messerschmitt!
                WA$.

                Comment

                • SADSACK
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 3482

                  I have no issue with trading aircraft or in certain cases, artifacts. I dont see how we benefit when a Mosquito, spitfire XIX and Seagull depart while nothing replaces them.
                  pb::

                  Comment

                  • Creaking Door
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 9863

                    I'm all for an 'aggressive' short-term loan policy; it keeps a museum interesting, vibrant and makes it more of a commercial proposition. It also allows 'space' to be created, helps other museums and generates publicity which ultimately brings in visitors...

                    ...but irreplaceable aircraft are the currency of these transactions; without them you don't get to play!
                    WA$.

                    Comment

                    • Consul
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 1768

                      QUOTE " Is it a loan to 'Solent Sky' then (who I think already have a Walrus under restoration)?"

                      Creaking Door.

                      Solent Sky disposed of their Walrus a long time ago and it is in private ownership undergoing long term restoration to airworthy standard, at Audley End.
                      "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."(Mary Baker Eddy)

                      Comment

                      • Creaking Door
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 9863

                        I have quite a bit of sympathy in the argument for returning significant aircraft to their homeland...
                        Except where their 'homeland' was formerly Nazi Germany (or the Japanese Empire). I'm sorry, but these aircraft, although technically fascinating, are far too powerful as symbols of wartime victories...

                        ...and defeats; historically it is important that these 'war prizes' remain as such.
                        WA$.

                        Comment

                        • Creaking Door
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 9863

                          Solent Sky disposed of their Walrus a long time ago and it is in private ownership undergoing long term restoration to airworthy standard, at Audley End.
                          Maybe I've got this the wrong way round but I thought the private airworthy restoration had been abandoned and the Walrus had been taken-on by a museum (I assumed Solent Sky).....I could be wrong?

                          Yep.....wrong.....I stand corrected!

                          I'm obviously a bit out of date but wasn't the same aircraft was in private ownership before, under restoration (to airworthy standards), before it was purchased by Solent Sky?
                          Last edited by Creaking Door; 8th September 2017, 21:50.
                          WA$.

                          Comment

                          • Rocketeer
                            trying harder
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 5245

                            Ironic.....a plate issued by RAFM to commemorate the opening of the Battle of Britain Museum by the Queen Mother in 1978

                            Opened in time for the 40th anniversary, did not even stay open for 36 years. I'm still p'd off with the RAFM management.


                            http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Opening-of...IAAOSw~qNZiOQO
                            Tony Dyer
                            https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

                            Comment

                            • Rocketeer
                              trying harder
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 5245

                              Still this RAFM web page is disingenuous with the truth. I make no apologies for going on about this.

                              https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/...tain-hall.aspx
                              Tony Dyer
                              https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

                              Comment

                              • David Burke
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 10028

                                An addition of a Spitfire PRXI would be nothing to do with adding to a line up of Spitfires. It would be to add depth to the massively neglected story of reconnaissance - the days of aircraft museums adding machines to just add further airframes should be long over.

                                As to the 'war prizes' - unique airframes add little to our heritage and the vast majority of visitors will view it as just another airframes. The notion that they signify a 'victory' should be long gone - they are technical examples and far more valuable and interesting in their country of origin. A prime example of this is the Kawasaki Ki100 - it had a minor influence in the overall campaign and it would be far better served on display in Japan with a 'Zero' taking its place here.

                                Comment

                                • jack windsor
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 921

                                  hi morning,
                                  thankfully farnboroughrob quiet true, and if not for the the RAF during the B of B ( and that's what the B of B hall commemorates by showing "us and them" ), we would now be asking frau Merkel to
                                  return a Spitfire or Lancaster to its homeland...

                                  Comment

                                  • RacingMonk
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2009
                                    • 63

                                    Does anyone know when the Typhoon returns from Canada?

                                    Comment

                                    • farnboroughrob
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2008
                                      • 617

                                      I feel the whole war prizes thing is so last century. We have to remember that the vast majority of visitors have never even met anybody who served in WW2 and it is probably not a personal thing to them. They just see the history without the emotion of older people. The issue of possibly loaning some of the former BofB aircraft to Germany would be one for the sensitivities of that country, I would rather see aircraft on loan than in a dusty store. What I would like to see at the RAFM is actually showing what it was like to be a WOP, Nav, or gunner in a Lancaster, or Halifax on a mission with some walk through replica exhibits. The FAAM have the excellent carrier experience, would be good to see some sort of aircrew experience at Hendon or Cosford.

                                      Comment

                                      • Creaking Door
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 9863

                                        The FAA Museum 'carrier experience' is dire.....meanwhile, all the real carriers (and virtually all the other warships) have gone off to the breaker's yard!

                                        This country practically invented carrier-aviation, and we've certainly had our share of successes with carriers (and more recently than most), but you wouldn't know that from our lack of attempts to preserve them!
                                        WA$.

                                        Comment

                                        • Creaking Door
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 9863

                                          An addition of a Spitfire PRXI would.....add depth to the massively neglected story of reconnaissance...
                                          Fair enough, I agree, but how can you dismiss a 'war prize' as 'just another aircraft' to the vast majority of visitors?

                                          I'll guarantee to you that 'the vast majority of visitors' will have more chance of differentiating between a Spitfire and a Messerschmitt than between two (or is it five?) slightly different marks of Spitfire...

                                          ...apart from the PR Spitfire is a nice shade of blue?
                                          WA$.

                                          Comment

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