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  • cabbage
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2011
    • 313

    Folland Gnat

    Hi Guys,
    Have recently got the new Airfix 1/48 Gnat, and intend finishing it in the silver / dayglow CFS scheme.

    My question is this. Looking at the fairing / bulge on the fuselage, where the tailplane joins the fuselage, on some aircraft thefairing is painted Dayglow eg. XS105.

    On other aircraft. the fairing is clearly painted silver eg. XP501.

    Can anybody confirm which is correct for XM709 as featured in the kit ?

    Thanks in advance.

    Cabbage
  • ~Alan~
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Mar 2010
    • 5021

    #2
    If nobody on here knows, this looks like a good place to ask (unless you already have)

    http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/i...t-right/page-2
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

    Comment

    • jeepman
      infrequent poster now
      • Apr 2004
      • 1986

      #3
      Your model: your choice - and if you can't be sure, it's likely that nobody else can be either - so you're not wrong whichever route you go as you have seen examples finished either way.

      On the strength of this quickly googled b & w image though I would say silver - based on the reflectivity of that fairing compared with the day-glo areas

      http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1256908/
      JM

      Comment

      • cabbage
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jun 2011
        • 313

        #4
        Thanks guys. I had almost convinced myself that the fairing was painted silver.

        I must admit that each time I look at pictures of the scheme I interpret the colours differently. Must be something to do with my eyesight.

        Comment

        • mike currill
          Big pistons rule
          • Jul 2003
          • 8791

          #5
          Originally posted by jeepman View Post
          Your model: your choice - and if you can't be sure, it's likely that nobody else can be either - so you're not wrong whichever route you go as you have seen examples finished either way.

          On the strength of this quickly googled b & w image though I would say silver - based on the reflectivity of that fairing compared with the day-glo areas

          http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1256908/
          I'll go along with that and think that whichever way you go there's a good chance it wore both styles during its service.
          The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its original size.

          Comment

          • lothar
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2007
            • 59

            #6
            Is this any help?


            Click image for larger version

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            My other Gnat photos all show the same paint treatment of the fin base. This was taken in 1968.

            Comment

            • Discendo Duces
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Mar 2006
              • 253

              #7
              That's interesting.

              It looks like the main airframe is painted Light Aircraft Grey ,which was only used on a few Gnats before the Red and White scheme was introduced - if my memory serves me correctly. Prior to that they were silver, of course.

              Nice shot.

              DD

              Comment

              • TwinOtter23
                NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                • Jan 2006
                • 7774

                #8
                cabbage - a few years ago a couple of forumites were very helpful to NAM re Gnat schemes from that era.

                Inkworm did an excellent colour illustration of NAM’s Gnat from that time.

                This was followed up by AMB, who kindly sent through two colour photographs; one shows XR534, in 1967 when it was silver and dayglo, then the following year, 1968, at Little Rissington after it was repainted into the grey scheme.

                If you PM through an email address, I’ll send through PDF files of two museum newsletters that show colour photographs of the schemes.
                Find out what's happening at newarkairmuseum.org
                Please help move Chinook ZA717 to Newark Air Museum

                Comment

                • cabbage
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2011
                  • 313

                  #9
                  Right, after further investigation I think I have an answer.
                  Looking closely at the various pictures of dayglow marked Gnats, the tailplane fairings were painted silver, on the silver painted aircraft, and painted dayglow on the gray painted aircraft.

                  The interpretation of the pictures has been complicated by noticing that the gray painted aircraft, also have a gray panel behind the fuselage serial number.

                  No doubt somebody will prove me wrong, but thanks all of you for your help and advice.

                  Cabbage

                  Comment

                  • viscount
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 392

                    #10
                    At risk of a 'rap over the knuckles' for copying directly from a 'Mini-Monograph' book: "Hawker Siddeley Gnat" by Paul A. Jackson, pub. by Alan W.Hall (Publications) Ltd - an 'Aviation News Production', no ISBN, no Pub. date (circa 1980), 32 pages. ... actually the Mods should let me get away with it (this time) as the book does not include any copyright logo!.

                    Don't know about XM709 but the answer regarding the silver/natural metal & day-glo scheme is not straightforward. On XM706 the day-glo included the tailplane fillets while in silver/natural metal - providing the graphics artist is correct! The photo of XM706 is a pixel print, so is not as clear as the original, and is earlier than the artwork (4.62 -c.4.65) - while the tailplane fillets are day-glo, the registration is on a patch of silver/natural metal (tail and underwing), so a clear difference. Hopefully enough clues to satisfy your need for accuracy. Several Gnats of the CFS wore the code '92' at different times, including both XM706 and XM709.

                    To provide the airframe history, from the same 'Mini-Monograph':

                    Initial production order of 14 aircraft, Contract 15434, XM691-XM709.

                    XM709, C/no. FL514 (14th production Gnat T.1), first flight 5th January 1962. Ready for collection 26.1.62.
                    Accepted by CFS at RAF Little Rissington on 2nd February 1962 and coded '95'
                    Cat.3 flying accident 28.2.63, to HSA for repair and modifications 26.6.63-1.10.64. Returned to CFS, and re-coded '92'
                    in early 1970 re-coded 'C', still with the CFS
                    With HSA for modifications and re-conditioning 14.4.71-27.10.71
                    From HSA direct to No.4 FTS at RAF Valley, and coded '09'
                    Cat.3 unserviceable 27.2.74, repaired on site by 71 MU 7.3.74 to 25.7.74 and returned to No.4 FTS service
                    Retired to No.5 MU at RAF Kemble 7.11.78
                    SOC 4th March 1979
                    Allocated to No.1 S of TT at Halton for instructional use with 'maintenance' serial 8617M, with their code of '67'.
                    Subsequent disposal is beyond the publication date of the book!

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Click image for larger version

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                    Last edited by viscount; 3rd February 2015, 21:40. Reason: Amending information.

                    Comment

                    • lothar
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Aug 2007
                      • 59

                      #11
                      Two more photos for you to mull over:
                      Click image for larger version

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                      Click image for larger version

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                      The first shows what looks to be the silver/dayglo scheme and the second shows a comparison. '21' in the top LH corner is in the old scheme (note the faded tatty dayglo) and the other three have been upgraded. However both show the fairing in question as dayglo not silver. Again, these were taken in 1968. Have I spoiled the party?!

                      Lothar

                      Comment

                      • cabbage
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2011
                        • 313

                        #12
                        Sorry Lothar but Iinterpret these pictures differently.
                        "21" inthe first picture clearly has the silver fairing (look closely at where the tailplane meets the fuselage)

                        In the second picture, the furthest away Gnat has the same silver fairing, while the other three, in the later gray/dayglo colours, have dayglo coloured fairings.

                        Cabbage

                        Comment

                        • lothar
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 59

                          #13
                          Cabbage,

                          My abject apologies. I completely misread the original question and was working on the fairing where the tailfin meets the fuselage not the tailplane. Nevertheless I hope that my photos have been of some use.

                          Lothar

                          Comment

                          • scotavia
                            scotavia
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 2834

                            #14
                            Great photos, I was at 4FTS Valley from 73 to 75 and recall a variety of schemes,some of the Dayglo was in the form of sticky back panels made by 3M. The Hunters had at least 4 schemes including a white painted spine and tail. Gradually they appeared in the red white and grey scheme and the Gnats followed.

                            Comment

                            • lothar
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 59

                              #15
                              Two more photos - quality not so good I'm afraid

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Click image for larger version

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                              Both taken in 1968.

                              Comment

                              • topspeed
                                Get on uppah !
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 2660

                                #16
                                It was amazingly small;

                                General characteristics
                                Crew: 1
                                Length: 28 ft 8 in (8.74 m)
                                Wingspan: 22 ft 1 in (6.73 m)
                                Height: 8 ft 1 in (2.46 m)
                                Wing area: 136.6 ft (12.69 m)
                                Empty weight: 4,800 lb (2,175 kg)
                                Max. takeoff weight: 9,040 lb (4,100 kg)
                                Powerplant: 1 Bristol Siddeley Orpheus 701-01 turbojet, 4,705 lbf (20.9 kN)


                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat
                                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • Bombgone
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2013
                                  • 391

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by lothar View Post
                                  Two more photos - quality not so good I'm afraid

                                  Both taken in 1968.
                                  That's how I remember the colour schemes at Valley late 1960's. As I remember it they changed to Strike command. The Hunters at CFS, very smart livery but boy were they ear blowingly noisy.
                                  Bomb Gone Skipper sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • topspeed
                                    Get on uppah !
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 2660

                                    #18
                                    Airborne at 11:40; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS6EGm4ojDE
                                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

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