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By: - 29th July 2014 at 14:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi
I've noticed a Perspex 'window' on the trailing edge of the Blenhiem main wing, visible on these excellent photographs:http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10130
Cheers
James
You do realize these are not photographs?
Jon
By: - 29th July 2014 at 14:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You do realize these are not photographs?Jon
Hi Jon,
er, no, I didn't!......... :stupid:
I have seen the Blenhiem 'windows' on pictures on other site but I couldn't find it again, so I just grabbed the first one I found and didn't look at the web site at all!
Still, it is a really superb image and even better for me as I am actually researching for a 3D model of the Stirling. If I can generate an image that is as good as that Blenhiem I'll be a happy man!
Cheers
James
By: - 29th July 2014 at 15:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are you referring to the formation light perspex cover on the trailing edge of the wingtip?
By: - 29th July 2014 at 15:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are you referring to the formation light perspex cover on the trailing edge of the wingtip?
Hi Peter
Yes, or more accurately, what you would see if you were to remove that Perspex cover.
It's the mechanical arrangement of the bulbs, filters, light shields and bulb holders I am interested in.
Cheers
James
By: - 29th July 2014 at 15:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks james..
By: - 29th July 2014 at 20:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi James! How come I do feel lured into this thread!
The lights you are referring to on the Blenheim are the formation keeping lights but I'm afraid that AP1530B (Blenheim Mk IV) only gives the electrical connection scheme and a drawing of the wing tip structure into which the formation and navigation lights are mounted, bar any details of the lights themselves.
However, I have a scanned copy of a Blenheim Mk IV Airframe Inventory book and this tells us that the formation keeping lamps are of the "B" type and bear reference number 5C/803. I have a few photos of RAF lamps but not of a 5C/803 of course but perhaps someone else might provide.
This of course relates to the Blenheim so don't know of how much relevance it is to the Stirling.
Cheers,
Walter
By: - 30th July 2014 at 00:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Walter
Good to catch up with you again!
I did a quick Google and have the attached from ebay - bit large, but that makes it easier to read the serial number. A few more questions for the Blenhiem then:
1. How many Formation keeping lamps are there?
2. Does your documentation mention colours?
3. Is there a selection switch and morse key in the cockpit for these?
I suspect that the arrangement would be similar for the Blenhiem as for the Stirling at the same point in time. Since there only seem to be three or four lamp holder designs for wingtips and tail bulb holders it would seem unlikely that anything special was used.
Annoyingly the end of the holder has a ring with tapped holes around the periphery - this suggests that another 'part' could be screwed onto the top and be used to mask out light going in any other direction that that required.
Anything you can dig up would be great and thanks for your reply! Incidentally the AP for the MkI Stirling shows a selection switch for the required colour mounted in the wing tip!!! This is not a mistake as the feed wire passes through a junction box at the wing tip and then into the switch. Was it really required that some ground personnel had to get to the wing tip 22 feet up in order to choose a light colour!?
I did find the attached wing tip drawing in my research which might appear to show three of these bulb holders in the formation position window.
I have a Stirling wing tip taken in production, but there are no clear signs of any bulb mounting and the same for a wing tip held by another Stirling enthusiast, that just shows a single hole with no obvious 'three lamp' assembly facility.
Cheers
James
By: - 30th July 2014 at 08:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Oh - Incidentally, I recently saw some Lancaster footage on a TV programme recently, the same type of window was fitted to its wing tip! Must have been an early model as the Lancaster appears to have quickly adopted the three 'Resin' lights that seem to have been the most common style.
So if there are any Lancaster pictures?
Cheers
James
By: - 15th August 2014 at 21:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi James, sorry for taking so long but further to your post #8 - ta for finding that pic of a 5C/803, I was actually expecting something with a flat end for easy mounting like the 5C/492 navigation lamp.
Anyway back to the Blenheim and to answer your question, the Blenheim only carries single formation keeping lamps, the inventory mentioned earlier does not specify the colour but the 5C vocab lists both blue and clear glasses. Of note is that in various AP's both the terms "formation keeping lamp" and "recognition lamp" are used for the same item. There IS a signalling switchbox 5C/372 in the circuit for the formation keeping lamps.
As you're "doing" the Stirling I thought it might be interesting to check AP1600A Vol 1 which covers the AVRO Manchester I as they're both of the same generation (or sort of anyway) and there we see three formation keeping/recognition lamps on each wing tip, colours being red, green and yellow and again ther is a signalling switchbox in the circuit as is something that looks like a selector switch (to choose the colour perhaps?). No lamp type indicated of course.
Anson and Beaufighter also appear to have only single formation keeping lamps so maybe the triple lamps are specific to larger, four-engined aircraft?
Cheers,
Walter
By: - 16th August 2014 at 00:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Walter
Yes I suspect that the Manchester had three formation lights too. I have some documentation that shows that Formation lights were being experimented with in 1934, so not really a new idea at any point, but indeed the recipients of these lights were intended to be Heavy bombers and some Medium ones.
The problem still is one of finding a photo of the wing tip of a heavy bomber (up to about 1941) with three formation lights.
Cheers
James
Posts: 411
By: jamesinnewcastl - 29th July 2014 at 12:19
Hi
Now I've lured you here I hope you are not going to be too disappointed that my post is really Stirling oriented!
I've noticed a Perspex 'window' on the trailing edge of the Blenhiem main wing, visible on these excellent photographs:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10130
This is similar to the early Stirlings and I believe it houses the 'formation following' lights. I can't find anything for the Stirling so I am hoping that the Blenheim has better records
Does anyone have a close-up photograph of the Blenhiem lights or a drawing of them (perhaps from an A.P.)? Preferably close up enough to see the lamps and holders in some detail?
Cheers
James