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By: - 20th July 2014 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the heads up! :applause:
By: - 20th July 2014 at 21:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They have
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?131117-The-Lanc-Britains-Flying-Past-BBC2-2130-20-July
By: - 20th July 2014 at 21:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
However this thread was started first. :confused:
By: - 20th July 2014 at 23:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Whatever....
Very good programme. Very emotional.
The first half was a bit rushed, but once there was the interviews with the former aircrew, Mureen Stevens and husband, Mary Stopes-Roe, Johnny Johnson, and of course Elaine Towlson's emotion visit to here fathers wrecked Lancaster DV202, made it for me.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 02:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thoroughly enjoyed the programme, thought he handled it in a very sensitive manner.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 08:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A well compiled programme, presented by a 'Lancaster enthusiast!'
By: - 21st July 2014 at 08:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Possibly a bit too enthusiastic? I would have liked to see him inside the Lancaster - contemplating the prospects of getting out in a hurry in full flying gear. That's what struck me when I managed to get inside the BoB Lanc a few years ago. Those aircrew were brave beyond all comprehension.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 08:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Our most repected volunteer at the Wings Museum is Dave Fellows, he can be seen on duty at the museum most Sundays unless he is out signing or taking part in a TV interview. Really down to earth man who is as sharp today as he was 70 years ago sitting in his turret! Anyone got a rear Turret, he'd love that!
By: - 21st July 2014 at 08:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
at one stage in the programme sargeant's script writers had him claim that the Peenemunde op was mainly a Lancaster operation .... there were certainly more Lancasters involved - but not many more than the Halifax and Stirling contribution - a quick totting up of numbers Group by Group indicates thus -
1 Gp 115 Lancasters
3 Gp 54 Stirlings 12 Lancasters
4 Gp145 Halifaxes
5 Gp 117 Lancasters
6 Gp (RCAF) 52 Halifaxes 9 Lancasters
8 Gp (PFF) 73 Lancasters 21 Halifaxes
i conclude that 326 Lancasters , 218 Halifaxes and 54 Stirlings were involved - i suppose semantically it was true that it was a mainly Lancaster operation - but the overall figures demonstrate how close the margin was between 'mainly' Lancasters and 'the rest'
By: - 21st July 2014 at 12:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, forty minutes of unbalanced filler before the last twenty minutes of human interest stuff.
Overall, could have been much better, three out of ten?
By: - 21st July 2014 at 12:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am surprised that no one seems to have tried to properly identify the Lancaster in the lake. Certainly the evidence suggests it's DV202 but it's not confirmed. Surely at least one of the merlin engines must still be in the lake (which seems shallow enough) and the serial number would then remove all doubt? Also, if the Russians say they recovered and buried 4 aircrew from the wreck then they probably did. They would have taken the most direct and easy route to dry land (not reed beds) so it must be possible to figure out the most likely graves location. Ground radar would do the rest. Maybe this is a job for Uwe Benkel and his team in Germany; it's exactly the kind of job they do well.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 13:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Overall, could have been much better, three out of ten?
I agree Alan, whilst it was clearly not aimed at those of us who know our onions, it was unsatisfyingly brief with regard to the Lancaster story, and failed to place the Lancaster in context when compared with the other heavies, and indeed with the USAAF efforts.
I think much more could have been made of the representative crew they put together - which for me represented much more of a human story than the lady whose father had died aboard DV202 - that particular story certainly had a place; but perhaps in a wider piece on WW2 losses across the board.
Still, it passed a spare hour!
Bruce
By: - 21st July 2014 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Re 11
You got it right !
Too much emoting and not enough 'nuts and bolts' techie stuff. I think it reflected the feminine influence in program making to-day.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 13:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cau_JcZlxS0
For those without access to BBC iPlayer. I do not know how much longer this clip can be viewed before it may be removed.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 17:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
One of the engines from DV202 has been recovered, it's in the local museum. I'm surprised the identity of aircraft was questioned.
Damn those women er... John. Who let them out of the kitchen. Having just spoken to a lady in her 80s she was still very emotional about the programme having had two cousins who served in Bomber Command. One, a very sick 91 year old former pilot, was wheeled out to see the programme and he too was a bit emotional by all accounts. But hey, let's have more about guns, bombs and wing spans.
By: - 21st July 2014 at 18:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
David, In site of your emoting, I'm glad to read that we are apparently on the same wavelength ! Yes, you are right. That is what the Lancaster was about; guns, bombs and wingspans. Some detail of that kind would have been most welcome.
I can never get my wife into the kitchen never mind out of it.
My 88 year old lady friend used to assemble Wellingtons at the Vickers factory at Brooklands. Her descriptions are always cool, dry, un-emotional and compelling.
Posts: 3,652
By: - 25th July 2014 at 10:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Despite alerting the forum to the programme I actually viewed it last night and disappointed is an understatement. Yet another golden opportunity for a historical documentary with a personal human interest The Lancaster Lovers and Stan Shaw's story to finish it off in style missed completely. A very poor show yet again by the penny pinching BBC who would rather keep wasting millions of pounds on unsuccessful Drama/Comedy/and so called stars not to mention all the money wasted in courts defending then loosing and paying out compensations to whom ever!
I agree entirely with what Nachtjagd and Bruce have said and would go further to say there is obviously a lacking in the historical department when it comes to Aviation as a whole as this is not the first time a documentary has had mixed up facts accompanied by some dodgy related filming as examples
showing a Henkel 111 that was plummeting to earth and Short Stirling in a couple of shots to name but two gaffs, to say nothing of the way John took Stan Shaw's Daughter and Grandson out to the wreckage onto a pier that looked as if it would collapse any second then to row them out in a boat that was barely big enough for all three really penny pinching again with a lack of organisation.
It really surprises me that so many documentary's are never researched properly that always include the same tired pictures of wrong aircraft when describing certain actions, I often wonder if this is simply because to acquire the correct film of certain actions is more costlier than say showing a bomber that resembles the aircraft being focused on if it isn't and neither apply they are just treating the audience with scorn obviously with the view that one person does not know one type of aircraft from another ?
I would say on the whole though these documentary's are viewed by the aviation enthusiasts ? as an old friend put it many years ago as me and another chap sat discussing air show's, this other chap commented ' while we sit wanking over our aircraft most enjoy a good pint '- enough said I think. This is why I feel the makers should be more conscious of the audience and not treat them as a dumb viewer but treat all the viewers as if they actually are interested in the subject and may possibly know a thing or two, I mean god help the BBC if a period drama ever had things out of place I imagine all hell would break loose it a shame the same attitude is not put into certain documentary's.
Geoff.
By: - 25th July 2014 at 11:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
' while we sit wanking over our aircraft most enjoy a good pint '.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is entirely your own business, but I would suggest that it is inappropriate for this forum.
By: - 25th July 2014 at 11:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
A very poor show yet again by the penny pinching BBC who would rather keep wasting millions of pounds on unsuccessful Drama/Comedy/and so called stars not to mention all the money wasted in courts defending then loosing and paying out compensations to whom ever!
Whilst I agree that it was a very poor programme, the BBC can and often do make excellent aviation documentaries, the recent one on Eric Brown being a good case in point. A lot depends on who is sub-contracted to produce the programme, I think it's rare nowadays that the Beeb makes any of its own documentaries.
john
By: - 25th July 2014 at 11:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Short Sterling????
Apart from a rowing boat, I'm not sure what else BBC could have laid on for a trip in an inland lake in Northern Germany.
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 20th July 2014 at 00:41
Hi All,
Just a note nobody mentioned BBC2 programme about the Lancaster.
Geoff.