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By: 18th February 2014 at 21:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Hi dont know if this will be of any help but have you been in touch with these people www.facebook.com/groups/8THAFHS/
with your permission i can post a link onto the site as i am amember
By: 19th February 2014 at 21:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Thanks for the above idea which sounds like a good one. I've PM'd you, and either myself or Tony will get back to you.
By: 19th February 2014 at 23:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
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On 10th May 1945, days after the European wars' end, two Fortresses collided mid air over Braintree in Essex. This resulted in one aircraft crashing killing all on board and the other escaping with no loss of life.
Both aircraft were based at Kimbolton in Huntingdon. The journey that was being undertaken was a return trip to the United States and therefore not all on board were air crew. Some are believed to have been ground crew.
Admittedly I have not checked up on this, but I would be more inclined to think that this trip could have been a 'cooks tour' rather than on the journey home. Braintree from Kimbolton is completley in the opposite direction that they would have needed to go.
On top of that, the war had only ended, officially, what 2-3 days before, which seems is a bit too quick to already be making their journey back home.
None the less, it is a worthy project and I wish you all the best with it.
Which area of Braintree did the aircraft crash in?
By: 20th February 2014 at 05:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-That makes a lot of sense Bomberboy.
Moggy
By: 20th February 2014 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Bomberboy;
I concur too. More likely a "cooks tour" flight. If the 401st BG that I researched are anything to go by, it was August before the group headed for home. Reading the records, one of the reasons that they were held back was in case of a required move to the Pacific theatre. This would have probably included most of the heavy bomber outfits. As far as the route is concerned, as you say, the wrong direction. The 401st transited via Valley...I would imagine this would have been the route for most other groups.
Regards;
Steve
By: 20th February 2014 at 08:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-As far as I know the area the collision occurred over was 'Convent Hill' and there is a new housing estate built at that location now.
The journey home was supposed to have taken them to Casablanca first I was informed.
- Steve, (RAF Rochford) did you receive my PM's OK?
Ideally once Tony gets onto this thread he can comment directly as he has a greater understanding of the incident than myself.
By: 20th February 2014 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-My late Grandfather told me about this accident, as he saw it and was one of the first to arrive on the crash scene. He was concerned it had crashed on his Mother's house who lived nearby to the crash site.
The tail section of the stricken aircraft came down at the end of Friars Lane (which runs west off Bradford St) and landed approximately where Williams Drive is today. For many years there was a small crater still visible, but that disappeared when houses in Willaims Drive were build there in the 80s.
The main part of the aircraft crashed into the grounds behind of the franciscan covent, which is adjacent to the River Pant in Broad Road. The crash site covered approximately the area where Nursary Lane, The Cloisters (road) and the lake of the former sand pit are today.
My mother recalls that after the crash many souvenirs were taken from the wrecakge by locals and the sites were eventually cleared about a week after the crash. Given this and the subsequent building at both locations and sand excavations at the latter I doubt there would be very much evidence to find today.
G-APDK
(Braintree resident)
By: 20th February 2014 at 20:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Steve, - RAF Rochford, - are you still about. PM's received?
By: 20th February 2014 at 22:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Thank you all for the info.
I think we've got all we can get now on the crash, but if more comes our way, we wouldn't say no. We ideally need some photographs of the B17 (#44-8198) as we only have 2 'nose shots' taken as a backdrop for crew photos.
We know she was used as a workhorse and had no specific crew. On the day she crashed she was due to fly back to America for the Pacific war.
We are now tracing family and relatives of the men; so far we have 5 of 11 and all are willing to come over to Braintree on the 70th anniversary in 2015.
What I could also do with is finding a site/software that would allow me to create a CAD drawing of our B17 whereby I can create an image that replicates what she looked like. If anyone can tell me where I could find this, that would be great. Also, any ideas where I could find info on what CALS she had. So far we know she had the Triangle 'K' with yellow backing and black border under that was the black 48198 and then under all that was the black 'H' But we dont know how else the fuselage looked other than '198' on the port side nose. If anyone who can help me on this, that would be great.
Please feel free to drop me an email at... [email]tony.lynch69@btinternet.com[/email]
Kind regards
Tony.
By: 1st October 2014 at 23:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Just to update this thread as it's been quite a while, Tony has now managed to trace ten sets of relatives out of the eleven he's been searching for. The last mans relatives we're trying to find are those of Irving Nussbaum who came from Brooklyn New York.
We have an old address and know his fathers, mothers and brothers names. Plus we know that his brother married in 1949, but still this hasn't lead us anyone yet.
If any forum members are proficient with family trees and want to help then please get in touch.
I believe the plans for next years ceremony are well under way and quite a few relatives will be attending. A piece of wreckage of one of the aircraft involved has come to light and I believe will be loaned to show relatives.
By: 13th October 2014 at 08:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I'm pleased to report that over the weekend a breakthrough occurred which led us to the last airmans family.
The brother of Irving Nussbaum is 92 years old and thrilled to learn of the forthcoming memorial. It appears that his brother was a pilot but on the day of the collision was a passenger on board the stricken aircraft.
Trying to find a family member for each of the 11 airmen on the downed bomber was quite a challenge, but we got there. Now Tony can focus on the setting up of the memorial for next May.
Thanks to all who looked in on the thread and tried to help.
By: 13th October 2014 at 09:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-there's no way I can help unfortunately, but my best wishes on the project...
regards,
dave...
By: 5th November 2014 at 08:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Tony has sent this through which shows the location of where the memorial will be sited:
By: 19th January 2015 at 07:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-In the last few days I was a bit sad to learn that over Christmas the brother of the last person sought, that of Irving Nussbaum, passed away. The brother, Maxwell was 92 years old. He had been very pleased to learn about the forthcoming memorial and had dug out all of his old photographs and reminiscing with his daughter. He was buried with full military honours.
His daughter still plans to come to the ceremony in May.
Here at last is a picture of Irving Nussbaum
By: 30th June 2015 at 11:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
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Posts: 80
By: STAN05 - 18th February 2014 at 20:08
Can I draw members attention to a project that is currently under way to arrange a memorial to the crew and passengers of a US Flying Fortress.
On 10th May 1945, days after the European wars' end, two Fortresses collided mid air over Braintree in Essex. This resulted in one aircraft crashing killing all on board and the other escaping with no loss of life.
Both aircraft were based at Kimbolton in Huntingdon. The journey that was being undertaken was a return trip to the United States and therefore not all on board were air crew. Some are believed to have been ground crew.
Serial No. 48198 of 379th BG 424 Squadron and serial No. 48813 of the same BG but of 526 Squadron collided with each other over Covent Hill Braintree.
Tony Lynch, the main researcher of the memorial project has got in touch with me as I have carried out a similar project last year for a RAF crew in Colchester. He had already made some progress before he'd contacted me and has made some since but there is still a lot of research into the whereabouts of relatives to complete.
If anyone feels like they could help with this I will be happy to pass on Tony's contact details.
Here is a brief article in the Braintree Times
http://www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk/news/braintree_witham_news/10413613.Braintree__Unravelling_70_year_old_mystery_of_horror_plane_crash/
And here is a thread that I put onto 'Rootschat' which is an ancestry tracing website
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=673440.0
This is a recent US article about one of the men on board the stricken aircraft ( which you will see the link to if you read through the 'Rootschat' link).
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/03/4659102/town-in-england-memorializing.html#.UwO88sLis5t
Thanks for reading.