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By: - 13th January 2014 at 07:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
...and the FB link takes you to...
"We have order to repair and convert the Messerschmitt Bf109 (Licence Hispano Aviacion Buchon) D-FMVS after the taxiing incident some moths ago to a Messerschmitt Bf109 G-12. The doubleseater will be powered with a Daimler Benz DB605 engine. We are very glad and proud about this fantastic project in our shop. After the conversion is done, this will be the only doubleseater Bf109 worldwide. Perfect for pilot-trainings and of course joyrides "
Some joyride! Assuming of course the passenger can fit...'lol'
Great news, Mathius.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 08:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Flying the G-12 Two-seater
A two seat Me 109 G-12. Now as the Welsh might say, "There's intrepid, isn't it?"
Captain Eric Brown, arguably the world's greatest test pilot, wrote in "Wings of the Luftwaffe" the following:-
"One of my rashest ventures was to fly the Bf 109 G-12 tandem two-seater from the rear cockpit with no one in the forward cockpit. I was interested to ascertain what sort of a view the instructor had for landing. The answer was none! I had to make three very frightening attempts before regaining terra firma. The periscope sight in the rear cockpit was of no use whatsoever in the vital final stage of flare, touch-down and landing run. One can only assume that Luftwaffe instructors finding themselves in a Bf 109 G-12 acquired a fatalistic acceptance of an inevitable reliance on their pupils for the finale of each training flight. I would certainly not recommend the ultimate solution that I adopted of a split-S turning dive at the runway and then a burst of power to avoid cratering the tarmac, and tail-up contact on the mainwheels. After the tail dropped it was anybody's guess as to the direction in which the aircraft was heading. I certainly had not the vaguest idea."
By: - 13th January 2014 at 09:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 09:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ambitious. I suppose Meier, restoring 4 DB-engined 109s at the moment, are working on the same basis that EADS do. That is, if you have enough of them, you have at least a chance of having one of them working at any given time.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 10:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wasn't there a 2-seater Hispano one in Texas that was used in the Battle of Britain film. What happened to that, is it still there ?
By: - 13th January 2014 at 10:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Still in Connie Edwards' hangar. However the configuration of the Bf 109G-12 is very different to that of the two-seater Buchon.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 11:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ok thanks Mike, didn't realise they were different configuration, but nice to know it's still there. As an aside if it's not to difficult to answer briefly, what are the main differences in configuration between the two? Thanks
By: - 13th January 2014 at 11:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is an Avia CS-199 two seater (Bf 109G-12)
By: - 13th January 2014 at 11:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The G-12 has a different configuration, with tandem, sideways-opening standard Bf 109 canopies.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 12:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Didn't the G-12 have those strange triangular side glazing extensions , a bit like the guard's duckets on some heritage rolling stock, on the rear canopy in an attempt to improve the instructors forward vision - never going to win a beauty contest is it.....
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/03/stuff_eng_dacoba_bf109g12.htm
By: - 13th January 2014 at 12:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmm, standard Buchon is a bit 'neither fish nor fowl'. Buchon with DB engine and dual controls - nice project, I just don't see any value in it!
By: - 13th January 2014 at 16:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ambitious. I suppose Meier, restoring 4 DB-engined 109s at the moment, are working on the same basis that EADS do. That is, if you have enough of them, you have at least a chance of having one of them working at any given time.
Mike, there are 3 different customers there. E-1: Robs Lamplough, G-4: Jerry Yagen (MAM / Fighter Factory), G-6 and G-12: Air Fighter Academy / Hangar 10, none of those planes / projects is owned by MeierMotors AFAIK. BTW the canopies of a G-12 are not standard Bf-109 canopies, they are modified ones. The left and middle parts are pivoting to the right, right side of canopy is fixed (due to stability reasons of the cockpit area?). And all G-12´s were modified from standard G-models (G-2 to G-6 IIRC), none were newbuilt fuselages.
Michael
By: - 13th January 2014 at 16:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Flying the G-12 Two-seaterA two seat Me 109 G-12. Now as the Welsh might say, "There's intrepid, isn't it?"
Captain Eric Brown, arguably the world's greatest test pilot, wrote in "Wings of the Luftwaffe" the following:-
"One of my rashest ventures was to fly the Bf 109 G-12 tandem two-seater from the rear cockpit with no one in the forward cockpit. I was interested to ascertain what sort of a view the instructor had for landing. The answer was none! I had to make three very frightening attempts before regaining terra firma. The periscope sight in the rear cockpit was of no use whatsoever in the vital final stage of flare, touch-down and landing run. One can only assume that Luftwaffe instructors finding themselves in a Bf 109 G-12 acquired a fatalistic acceptance of an inevitable reliance on their pupils for the finale of each training flight. I would certainly not recommend the ultimate solution that I adopted of a split-S turning dive at the runway and then a burst of power to avoid cratering the tarmac, and tail-up contact on the mainwheels. After the tail dropped it was anybody's guess as to the direction in which the aircraft was heading. I certainly had not the vaguest idea."
Blimey,that reads like some sort of horror story especially from such an experienced ,highly trained and gifted pilot.I hope the new owners/pilots have good insurance.
By: - 13th January 2014 at 21:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Blimey,that reads like some sort of horror story especially from such an experienced ,highly trained and gifted pilot.I hope the new owners/pilots have good insurance.
Well, I do believe the pilots wanting to get conversion training today will definitely have clocked more hours than the rookie Luftwaffe pilots. In early 1944 the average fighterpilot had 160 hours total flying time when transferring to the operational unit, later in ´44 that was further reduced to 112 hours average. This consisted of 2 hrs. gliders, 50 hrs. primary training, 40 hrs. advanced training, and only 20 hrs. operational training (average timeframe then: 5 months). So when flying a G-12 they had around 92 hours. And the trainer might not be the best around either. I believe anybody trying a conversion training today, will be better suited, having a lot more hours on high performance taildraggers. And a trainer today would not fly the G-12 singleseated from the rear seat. And the additional idea is, to be able to offer joyrides. Though they will not be cheap, one or another might want to experience the 109 from the rear seat as a passenger as well.
Michael
By: - 14th January 2014 at 08:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wow!
I think this will be one of the most interesting warbird projects for the next two or three years. I didn´t expect a two seat "BF 109" to get airborn again.
By: - 14th January 2014 at 14:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2 seat Me109 taken at Augsburg 1945
Something like this I believe.....[ATTACH=CONFIG]224535[/ATTACH]
photo courtesy of Jack Johnston
By: - 14th January 2014 at 21:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmm, standard Buchon is a bit 'neither fish nor fowl'. Buchon with DB engine and dual controls - nice project, I just don't see any value in it!
But where´s the value to build up the 45th (or so) flying Spitfire or Mustang around the only remaining part of the aircraft, it´s data plate? I think we should be happy with any interesting Warbird, which will fly again. And the G12 will be interesting for shure. Just my opinion.
By: - 14th January 2014 at 21:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It does make a Spitfire TR.IX look like Marilyn Monroe in comparison! I would have thought it would be easier to speak to Connie Edwards and ask to use his Buchon two seater as a template to convert another Buchon to twin stick.
By: - 15th January 2014 at 13:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think it would even be cheaper to buy this aircraft from Mr. Edwards, restore the fuselage, take the still fully intact wings and tailsection from the damaged Buchon and after two years of work you will have an aircraft which nobody wants to have- a two seat Buchon! (Of course, I would like to have one). So I think the option to convert this aircraft into a G12 is the better one. If this project will leave the hangar, it will be a high standard airworthy replica of a BF 109 G12, which was built at much higher standards than the original coverted G12 aircrafts. Not more and not less.
By: - 15th January 2014 at 14:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or just use the parts from the Edwards stash to make a complete aircraft...?
As has been said, the M4L and the G-12 are quite different.
Posts: 379
By: redvanner - 12th January 2014 at 23:23
Just today a new Bf-109 project was published by MeierMotors on their FB and website. Without telling too much, it is quite a step forward, and will be a one of a kind, but see for yourself:
http://www.meiermotors.com/de/news.html
or here: (even more info)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MeierMotors-GmbH/196699400376090
Michael