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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • Peter
    Moderator
    • Jan 2000
    • 12508

    your way off dko sorry...
    Cheers,Peter
    "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

    Comment

    • Bruce
      Independent analyst
      • Jan 2000
      • 10224

      As far as I understand things, no trace whatever was found of the pilot at the crashsite, either by Arido, or by the team that recovered the aircraft.

      My information is that Arido have not passed on the location of the remains they photographed and documented.

      The 'second set' of bones is the one that causes all the difficulties - I think we are agreed on that.

      I have no doubt whatever that if it was an easy matter to find the remains of the pilot, that it would have been done. However as the aircraft was recovered at night, still in very high temperatures, I find it hard to understand how a search could easily be carried out, and in any case cannot see where one would start even if one did decide to search. The bones we know about aside, perhaps someone could suggest how one would start a search?


      Bruce

      Comment

      • Peter
        Moderator
        • Jan 2000
        • 12508

        Didn't someone confirm that when the aircraft was dismantled, that there were no signs of any remains other than the possible parachute materiel on site?
        Cheers,Peter
        "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

        Comment

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest

          I think any 'information' from the recovery has been second hand. Nothing from the horses's mouth.

          As far as we know there was no forensic archaeological examination of the site before it was disturbed for the recovery, and there is certainly professional opinion that this should have been the ideal.

          Bruce - I think many would agree that the situation regarding Arido is most unsatisfactory. Further, I would agree that finding the bones where they did, let alone that they might be Flt Sgt Copping, is remarkable to say the least. However, the facts are; the bones are human, were photographed apparently found with a portion of parachute, and have been suggested to be those of Flt Sgt Copping. They need to be eliminated, not discounted because it is unlikely!

          The second set are problematic, and nobody knows (or is saying) where they were found or how, or why they have been linked as possibly associated to the P40!

          I accept what you are saying, and from what I believe to be good sources, that the second set of remains were not found during the recovery. It is unfortunate that apparently such detailed information (or confirmation) about the lack of remains at the crash site, or even about the wreck recovery itself, has apparently not yet been conveyed to relatives.
          Last edited by Tangmere1940; 4th November 2013, 16:19.

          Comment

          • Bruce
            Independent analyst
            • Jan 2000
            • 10224

            Indeed, we are agreed on that. Eliminating the first set of bones would be a simple matter if they could be recovered. I suspect that therein lies the problem. Even if the location is now made clear, who will go out and collect them?

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest

              There are people on stand-by, willing to do just that.

              Meanwhile, it is important to get to the truth of the matter regarding the second set.

              I gather that FOI requests have freshly been made in that respect.

              Comment

              • dko
                dko
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Nov 2012
                • 94

                http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-...wk-update.html

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                • Guest's Avatar
                  Guest

                  Thanks for the link, dko.

                  However, it tells us nothing we don't already know, unfortunately; that the P40 was recovered from the desert over a year ago and remains (apparently) still in Egypt.

                  I'm afraid this link seems to encapsulate the view that the pilot, his fate and his story is secondary to the aircraft since he is not even mentioned.

                  Comment

                  • qattara
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2012
                    • 52

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6761[1].jpg
Views:	2
Size:	49.5 KB
ID:	3650101

                    mery xmas to all of you! and happy new year

                    Comment

                    • Trolly Aux
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2006
                      • 3809

                      I do hope If it gets back to the UK it can be displayed 'as is' after light conservation, I think this is the way to go and shows history in a way a lot of us never see.


                      Interesting to note the bio-metal corrosion in two points behind the leading edges of the wings, anyone know what sat inside?
                      SMOKE SMOKE GO!
                      TA out

                      Comment

                      • qattara
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • May 2012
                        • 52

                        http://www.qattara.it/versione%20in%...UOLO%20ENG.pdf


                        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6808[1].jpg
Views:	1
Size:	47.2 KB
ID:	3650102

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                        • ozjag
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 834

                          Just looking at that last photo, the ends of the wings look very shiny, have they been cut there?
                          Facebook: Aussie Cockpits

                          Comment

                          • Spit16
                            Registered User
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 1

                            Cut, no. She was dismantled by a highly experienced engineering team, done by the book.

                            Comment

                            • lanc35
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 118

                              Thanks for the update Qattara,

                              However I don't think it is accepted to post pictures of what are possibly human remains?
                              I'm sure a mod will address it any way.


                              Are you able to shed any light on whether the location of these remains have been passed on to the MoD etc and if they were tested?
                              Last edited by lanc35; 19th December 2013, 11:35. Reason: extra q

                              Comment

                              • qattara
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2012
                                • 52

                                done, delete it and excuse me

                                Comment

                                • John Green
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Mar 2011
                                  • 6643

                                  Re 1896
                                  lanc35

                                  What could possibly be a sensible objection ? A simple photo, cannot in all commonsense, be described as disrespectful.

                                  Comment

                                  • lanc35
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2012
                                    • 118

                                    Hi John,

                                    Just going on past experience, that photographs of remains from crash sites aren't usually published.
                                    They can confirm it with the mods in this case and reinstate if its acceptable here.

                                    I guess anyone can contact qattara if they want to see them, and I don't wish to stop them/him contributing to the discussion.

                                    regards,
                                    Greg

                                    Comment

                                    • Guest's Avatar
                                      Guest

                                      Originally posted by lanc35 View Post
                                      Thanks for the update Qattara,

                                      However I don't think it is accepted to post pictures of what are possibly human remains?
                                      I'm sure a mod will address it any way.


                                      Are you able to shed any light on whether the location of these remains have been passed on to the MoD etc and if they were tested?
                                      Although I didn't see the image before it was deleted I am just curious to know; are these the remains found by Qattara and previously reported on? Or something else?

                                      Comment

                                      • TonyT
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2006
                                        • 9023

                                        Hello qattara,

                                        The toothpaste tube you show may possibly be rations, in the 70's some of the field rations we used to get such as Margarine, Jams, etc came in toothpaste tubes, I still have one somewhere.
                                        this is possibly the modern equivalent

                                        http://blogs.abc.net.au/.a/6a00e0097...50f1970b-800wi
                                        Last edited by TonyT; 19th December 2013, 15:20.

                                        Comment

                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          Might also be from the First Aid Kit, perhaps?

                                          In fact, I'd say it is almost certainly a tube of Tannex. (Tannic Acid)
                                          Last edited by Tangmere1940; 19th December 2013, 16:44.

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