Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • l.garey
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2006
    • 1951

    I have just heard that the head of the Forensic lab in Cairo has stated quite clearly that NO request was made to examine the bones suspected to possibly be those of Dennis Copping, that they have NOT been recovered from the desert, so NO DNA test has been done. So, the message from the Defence Attach to me that the bones were examined locally in Egypt and found not to yield DNA is VERY difficult to fathom. As he will not answer any more questions from me I have contacted the MOD in England, who should reply within the next few days (I hope).

    This is very frustrating and I just cannot understand why the situation seems to be getting more and more devious. All we want to do is to prove whether the remains found near the crash site could be those of Dennis Copping, or that they definitely are not his. Is that so difficult, when we have the technical ability to do it?

    What are we missing?
    Laurence

    Comment

    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest

      Sadly, it does not surprise me.

      However, it is more than difficult to fathom - as you say.

      Comment

      • Jayce
        Order of the Bent Pitot
        • Nov 2010
        • 495

        If someone was so inclined, now might be a good time to contact national newspapers and pass on the facts as we understand them with the contact details of the family. Given the 12 months of dithering so far, it's about time some national attention was shone on this issue again and if certain parties came out appearing incompetent that would certainly be nothing if not a fair description of their actions in this matter.

        Comment

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest

          They are already on to it.

          Comment

          • dko
            dko
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2012
            • 94

            But if those were not the remains of Copping have you thought of a plan "B" to continue research ........ or all will be forgotten?

            Comment

            • l.garey
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2006
              • 1951

              If they are not Flt Sgt Copping's remains, we would wish to search the original site of the crash, if that is possible, but first we must be able to examine the remains that were found.
              Laurence

              Comment

              • dko
                dko
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Nov 2012
                • 94

                The team Qattara/Arido can judge the probability of the remains and wait for a possible DNA test
                or start studying a plan "B" for new searches.
                Last edited by dko; 6th April 2013, 22:14.

                Comment

                • dko
                  dko
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2012
                  • 94

                  Read this :
                  http://www.satnews.com/story.php?number=1667620218

                  Comment

                  • pat1968
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 260

                    This is very interesting and good of them to look but with a resolution only capable of viewing objects larger than eighteen inches it was always unlikely that any evidence of the movements or whereabouts of the pilot would be found. There are certainly satellite systems that are capable of a much greater resolution but unfortunately the likes of you and I are not likely to have access to them. If the remains discovered by the are not those of Dennis Copping then i think the only way he will be found will be by an organised search on the ground or by accident in the same way that his aircraft was found. Either way we should do what we can to find him, positively identify him and give him a decent burial.
                    "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                    www.hawkerhind.com

                    Comment

                    • 43-2195
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2012
                      • 334

                      I think most of the members posting on this thread are of similar views on the subject of finding and recovering Sgt Dennis Copping's remains. The fact that such a large crashsite had remained relatively undisturbed and unlocated for so long only adds to our frustration. But my dealings with CIL(HI), now JPAC over the last ten plus years have made me view another angle on MIA search and recovery. Given that the USA actually has a unit dedicated to this task, and the UK does not, would only detract further from what I am about to post.
                      The US recovery unit (JPAC- Joint Personnel Accounting Command) does NOT search for the missing. They only investigate reported finds. Reports of human remains receive priority, reports of missing aircraft(with no visible remains) take a much lesser priority. The initial investigation is NOT a recovery, the initial field team compose a report on what would be needed to carry out a recovery, what assets are available to assist, and the likelihood of success. JPAC has a budget, and is restricted by that budget. An initial investigation of a missing aircraft (without remains) may be undertaken months or even years after discovery of the aircraft. Lists are drawn up of recovery sites that can be covered in a single deployment to get the best result with the funds expended. Given the opportunity to recover a multi crew aircraft or a single pilot aircraft, the multi crew aircraft will always get priority. In Papua New Guinea, where JPAC's list is never exhausted, it is not uncommon for single pilot aircraft to keep moving downwards in priority as multi crew aircraft sites become known/accessible. Two recent P-38 recoveries, were investigated 5 years ago and first reported by Australian Patrol Officers in the 1960's.
                      Not trying to hijack the thread, just feeling the same frustration at Sgt Copping's predicament in regards to the "apparent" lack of action being shown, and wanted to point out how long a dedicated recovery unit takes to achieve an outcome. As I said, the UK doesn't actually have one of these units.
                      I have known politicians and media to influence JPAC priorities, but such influence is not looked upon favourably by JPAC, who consider their own prioritization to be the most effective.
                      Last edited by 43-2195; 8th April 2013, 04:05.
                      SEEKING LOCKHEED P-38 PARTS, WILL BUY OR SWAP.

                      Comment

                      • qattara
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • May 2012
                        • 52

                        about copping case

                        hello to all
                        at this particular time I ask, if possible, not to disclose any information of which you are aware whether directly or indirectly and which comes from abroad as there is a real risk that hindered all the next steps.
                        we will inform you as soon as there are interesting developments, and I think soon.

                        DKO, think positive otherwise not serve for nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        Comment

                        • dko
                          dko
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 94

                          I will be positive and I will wait !

                          Comment

                          • DaveF68
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 1790

                            Originally posted by 43-2195 View Post
                            I think most of the members posting on this thread are of similar views on the subject of finding and recovering Sgt Dennis Copping's remains. ...

                            Thanks for that explanation - I think what frustrates many of us in the UK is that the UK Govt's starting policy is one of opposing recovery/repatriation in most cases, against the US one of recovery whereever possible
                            Last edited by Moggy C; 9th April 2013, 09:29. Reason: Unnecessary quote shortened

                            Comment

                            • mmitch
                              Member
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 1750

                              I received a letter from my MP Adam Holloway contain one from the MOD.
                              It says that they have been unable to contact the finders by email. Perhaps
                              qattra can help make the link. I do not have the letter handy as I have too recently left hospital, but it was The Minister for Veteran Affairs.
                              mmitch.

                              Comment

                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                From what I know, that is an extraordinary claim!

                                What is the date of this letter from the MOD?

                                If recent, it begs the question; if the MOD have been unable to contact the finders of the remains then how can they, or the Defence Attache, have actually been to find and recover the remains in order to discover that DNA could not be recovered?

                                The point I am making is that only the finders knew the location of the remains. Thus, without contact with the finders then I fail to see how the MOD/DA could have recovered them from the desert.

                                Or am I missing something?
                                Last edited by Tangmere1940; 9th April 2013, 18:15.

                                Comment

                                • waghorn41
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Mar 2011
                                  • 256

                                  I've followed this thread with interest from the start. While the apparent slowness of the MOD and lack of action on the ground in Egypt seems to be the main, apparent, problem let's consider the situation. Remains have been found and, thankfully, concealed and preserved for future recovery. However, we must bear in mind the current geo-political situation. Egypt has considerable problems with internal unrest, the North African region has seen turbulent times with westerners being targeted. You can be certain that the Egyptian authorities have more pressing commitments than to provide armed escort and safe passage for a recovery team - and they certainly would not countenance the prescence of an armed military expedition of a foreign power. While our good friend qattra has done so much to record and preserve what there is there must be an element of personal risk even in such a remote location once their continued presence is known. Perhaps that is why things are taking so long, to keep people away from the site and perceived dangers. Would we really expect the authorities to authorise an unprotected recovery and then take the flak if things went wrong. I, as much as you all, wish to see closure on this for the sake of Sgt Copping and his family but feel that we will just have to wait this out patiently.
                                  ex-RAF Hunter and Wessex mechanic

                                  Comment

                                  • David Burke
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 10027

                                    Some would argue that the effort to recover the P-40 is far higher than the recovery of human remains within a very short distance. It would make sense to have recovered both at the same time rather then doubling the risk by going to the site twice.

                                    Comment

                                    • Peter
                                      Moderator
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 12508

                                      I disagree David.. I would have sooner seen the aircraft be made secure.. then a comprehensive search for the missing pilot done.. but in a perfect world and all that...
                                      Cheers,Peter
                                      "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

                                      Comment

                                      • Easy Tiger
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2004
                                        • 204

                                        Originally posted by David Burke View Post
                                        Some would argue that the effort to recover the P-40 is far higher than the recovery of human remains within a very short distance. It would make sense to have recovered both at the same time rather then doubling the risk by going to the site twice.
                                        If I recall from previous threads, the bones had not been discovered when the aircraft was recovered. I also would not call 8kilometers a very short distance. As a search radius, that's over 200 million square metres - a very fortunate find by quatara in such a short time
                                        Flying must be easy. If it was difficult, groundcrew would have to do it!

                                        Comment

                                        • pat1968
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Apr 2004
                                          • 260

                                          Originally posted by waghorn41 View Post
                                          I've followed this thread with interest from the start. While the apparent slowness of the MOD and lack of action on the ground in Egypt seems to be the main, apparent, problem let's consider the situation. Remains have been found and, thankfully, concealed and preserved for future recovery. However, we must bear in mind the current geo-political situation. Egypt has considerable problems with internal unrest, the North African region has seen turbulent times with westerners being targeted. You can be certain that the Egyptian authorities have more pressing commitments than to provide armed escort and safe passage for a recovery team - and they certainly would not countenance the prescence of an armed military expedition of a foreign power. While our good friend qattra has done so much to record and preserve what there is there must be an element of personal risk even in such a remote location once their continued presence is known. Perhaps that is why things are taking so long, to keep people away from the site and perceived dangers. Would we really expect the authorities to authorise an unprotected recovery and then take the flak if things went wrong. I, as much as you all, wish to see closure on this for the sake of Sgt Copping and his family but feel that we will just have to wait this out patiently.
                                          All expeditions into the desert require a permit and are escorted. Usually by licences guides. Tourists are still visiting the area in question and have done so throughout the recent events in Egypt. I am only aware of one incident of western tourists being kidnapped in Egypt and this was in the sinai, an area known to be lawless long before the recent political upheaval. The p40 recovery was attended by the defence attach from the UK embassy in Cairo, clearly he was not too busy to attend the recovery of the aircraft but now apparently the embassy are too busy to recover the pilot? There has already been an officially sanctioned expedition into the desert. It is nothing like as dangerous as it is 'perceived' save for the risk of dehydration! Anyone can organise this kind of trip into the desert.
                                          "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                                          www.hawkerhind.com

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X