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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • l.garey
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2006
    • 1951

    Beachcomber: Why would it be "inappropriate"? The family want to get to the bottom of all this. It's going back and forth like a shuttlecock, which is helping no-one.
    Laurence

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest

      Originally posted by Uncle Mort View Post
      Thanks.

      Best person to contact his MP / the media would be John himself, as MoD's treatment of him & claims to be keeping him informed are clearly not true. If others do it on his behalf the MoD will just continue to deny it

      M
      He is permanently resident outside of the UK. Thus, he has no British government representative (MP) per se.

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      • pat1968
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2004
        • 260

        Originally posted by Uncle Mort View Post
        Do the MoD regard John as the NOK? Or is there another close family member they could be in contact with?

        NOK usually determined in the order: spouse, issue, parents, siblings....
        Uncle mort John Pryor Bennett is registered with the MOD (via) JCCC as the next of kin.
        "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

        www.hawkerhind.com

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        • dko
          dko
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Nov 2012
          • 94

          Meanwhile, let us look this old video of P40 similar to that of Copping!
          The explanation of the controls of the aircraft might suggest to experts or to careful observers
          some new hypotheses on the landing in the desert and the after ...!
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcqbytR9Ts

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          • pat1968
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Apr 2004
            • 260

            I have finally received a reply from my MP, Chris Skidmore, so i take back (most) of the unkind things i have said about him! Here it is in its entirety;

            Dear Patrick,

            Thank you for your e-mail of 9th November, with regard to Flight Sergeant Copping. I do appreciate you taking the time to get in touch and pass on your concerns.
            My understanding is that the Ministry of Defense, despite earlier errors, is now working with the team that discovered the remains in Egypt in order to identify them. They have also undertaken to keep Flight Sergeant Copping's family properly updated on the progress of this investigation.
            Obviously the earlier procedural mistakes were unacceptable, particularly when it comes to a matter as sensitive as a lost serviceman and his family. I know that ministers in the department will be paying very close attention to how this now proceeds, in order to ensure that FIt. Sergeant Copping's family are treated with the utmost respect.
            The MOD's Service Personnel and Veterans Agency continues to investigate whenever the remains of possible British service personnel are discovered on wartime battlefields. Furthermore, attempts are always made to find surviving family members and, where appropriate, a service funeral will always be provided in the nearest Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemetery to the find.
            I hope that this has been of some use. If there is anything else I can help you with, as your local MP, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

            with all best wishes

            Chris Skidmore MP


            In fairness Chris does seem to have made a reasonable fist of researching what is going on and does acknowledge the mistakes that have been made in the handling of this by the MOD. However clearly there is some kind of disconnect with regards to the maintenance of contact with the family. I have been in contact with the family and they are adamant that they have had no contact with the MOD since they were told that the remains discovered were 'categorically not those of Dennis Copping'. I believe that the information contained in the letter is truthful as far is Chris is concerned (and probably the other MPs' who have replied) but clearly there is at best a miscommunication between JCCC and the MOD in Whitehall. I will reply asking why this is the case and report back.
            "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

            www.hawkerhind.com

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest

              Snap!

              I have had a near identical letter from my MP today, too. It was on my mat when I returned home this evening.

              The words used were "....wholly unacceptable failings and procedural errors" and goes on to say that the matter has "...now been noted at the very highest level as a result of the situation being highlighted by a number of individuals and organisations."

              It concludes by saying "I will be personally monitoring the situation and asking for regular updates from the department concerned, as well as the FCO, over the coming weeks and months."

              Progress, perhaps?

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              • l.garey
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2006
                • 1951

                I still have no news from either qattara or Capt Collins since both told me they had no mutual contact. So is some wool being pulled over someone's eyes?
                Laurence

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                • Guest's Avatar
                  Guest

                  It would certainly seem likely that there is, at best, a breakdown of comms between 'our man in Cairo' and the MOD here. Not only that, but any lack of communications 'twixt Qattara and Capt Collins is inexcusable (if it is still the case) in respect of both parties.

                  Similarly, so is the lack of any further communcation with the family from the UK end.

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                  • TonyT
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Oct 2006
                    • 9021

                    I just recieved the same letter, dated 30th November.

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                    • mmitch
                      Member
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 1750

                      I received the same letter so I emailed my MP Adam Holloway about the discrepancy mentioned in post 251. He has now replied that he has written to Phillip Hammond asking him to clarify whether the family have been contacted.
                      mmitch.

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                      • TonyT
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 9021

                        I intend to as well, now I have the response that does not appear to correspond with what has been written here.
                        Last edited by TonyT; 8th December 2012, 13:51.

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                        • flaikbait5
                          Rank 3 Registered User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 8

                          Does anyone know what the latest is on the recovery of this P40, the last thing I read in the paper was that they sent a team out from the Uk to recover it and had suffered more damage since first discovered?

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                          • TonyT
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 9021

                            It was dismantled and is sitting in a freight container outside an Egyptian aviation museum.

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                            • pat1968
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 260

                              There is an interesting section on the historic flight website.

                              "February 23, 2013, "Recovering the Egyptian P-40 Kittyhawk"
                              In June of 2012, an intrepid group of recovery experts, lead by the Royal Air Force Museum's Tim Manna, ventured into the Egyptian desert to recover a P-40 Kittyhawk buried in sand for seventy years. Beginning at noon on February 23rd, Tim will tell the tale of 125-degree temperatures and other challenges he and his group faced, as well as the poignant story of the pilot apparently killed in the crash. Plans for display of the Kittyhawk have not yet been announced but may include a touring exhibit to aviation museums including HFF. Tim's photographs are spectacular."


                              here is the link to their website;

                              http://historicflight.org/hf/

                              before the mods get excited the relevant piece of information for this thread is the assertion that "the pilot apparently killed in the crash." I would certainly be interested to hear any information that could confirm this? Anyone in the know with the Historic flight?
                              "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                              www.hawkerhind.com

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                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                The RAFM's Tim Manna?

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                                • pat1968
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 260

                                  No idea? I can only assume so? Can anybody add anything to this? If Mr Manna is on a public speaking tour imminently does.that mean there will be an announcement regarding the recovery? My interest is in the evidence that Dennis was killed in the crash.This clearly has a bearing on where his remains may be now.Has this information been passed on to the investigating parties if there are any? What is going with regards to searching and recovering his remains?
                                  "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                                  www.hawkerhind.com

                                  Comment

                                  • l.garey
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2006
                                    • 1951

                                    Welcome back Andy. I have been off-line for a couple of days and must have missed something. This news about Tim Manna is amazing. What is the evidence that Dennis was killed in the crash? Where are his remains?
                                    Laurence

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                                    • Guest's Avatar
                                      Guest

                                      Thanks Laurence!

                                      As to your question regarding the link posted by Pat1968 - no idea.

                                      The contents of the internet posting are certainly interesting and tell us that Tim Manna will be speaking publicly about the P40 recovery, and its pilot, in February 2013.

                                      If correct then one assumes RAFM will tell us all something in January?

                                      For now, and for the purposes of this thread, the question of the pilot is paramount and that post, if correct, seems to imply that Tim may know something about the demise of Dennis Copping - unless the facts in that announcement are a little flawed or suspect.

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                                      • pat1968
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Apr 2004
                                        • 260

                                        Sorry i forgot to say welcome back Andy! How many times have you been banned now? You will never make a good politician if you go around telling the truth all the time!
                                        "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                                        www.hawkerhind.com

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                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          Thank you, Pat!

                                          Certainly an interesting on-line piece about Tim Manna's upcoming talk on the P40 but I am curious about the apparently definitive statement that poor old Dennis Copping was killed in the crash - unless this is just a bit of sloppy reportage or misinterpretation?

                                          Either way, it looks as if there will be some information released during February at the latest.

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