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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • pat1968
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2004
    • 260

    Originally posted by l.garey View Post
    I have received news today to the effect that, in spite of what PeterVerney's MP says, the team that found the human remains has NOT been contacted by the British Embassy in Cairo, and that the bones have NOT been given to anyone for analysis.
    This is absolutely disgraceful, it is bad enough that they make a complete hash of the whole thing now they are telling bare face lies!
    I incidentally have not heard anything from my MP, other than an automated response to my email. I am looking forward to attending one of his surgeries and asking for an explanation. Maybe he is remodeling his duck pond or whatever these people actually do?
    I would suggest re-contacting your MP and pointing out the fact that his information is clearly in error?
    "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

    www.hawkerhind.com

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    • l.garey
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Feb 2006
      • 1954

      To try to get some answers from the British authorities in Cairo about actions they or the MOD are taking (or not taking) to resolve the question of the recovery and identification (or not) of the human remains found by the Italian team in the desert (see my post 161, above), I have written three times to Capt Collins, the Defence Attach, and have received no answers or even acknowledgements. Yesterday (and again today) I sent an email to the ambassador, James Watt, but received the message that the embassy mailbox is full!!

      Although my primary concern remains the fate of Dennis Copping, I wonder if there is any news about the fate of the Kittyhawk wreck, the last I heard of it being in a container at El Alamein.
      Last edited by l.garey; 16th November 2012, 08:16.
      Laurence

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      • dko
        dko
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2012
        • 94

        It is not so easy to activate a procedure of removal of human remains from Egypt due to the archaeological history !
        In my opinion there are too few elements to argue that those are the remains of Copping!
        It was probably easier to recover the wreck..but still is in Egypt !

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest

          So, as I understand things the letter sent by Peter Verney's MP is not exactly truthful.

          According to the Italian team who discovered the remains they have stated in the last day or so, absolutely and categorically, that they have had NO contact from the British Embassy in Cairo.

          Further, my understanding is that it is rather being economical with the facts for the MOD to suggest that it is in "....close contact with the family of Flt Sgt Copping".

          Will we ever get to the truth, I wonder?

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          • TonyT
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2006
            • 9044

            I feel like another email coming on asking my MP why his fellow MP's are lying to us.

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            • l.garey
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2006
              • 1954

              Let it come, Tony. I think someone feels they can say just ANYTHING to keep us quiet and get away with it. If that is not true, maybe they will tell us!

              Andy: will we ever get the truth? Only if people are honest with us.
              Last edited by l.garey; 16th November 2012, 13:30.
              Laurence

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              • jack windsor
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2008
                • 923

                2 e-mails now to my MP,still no response not even an automated one! come the next election i will not respond.....it,s a great pity that good manners are a thing of the past to a large number of people,nowadays...

                regards
                jack...

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                • charliehunt
                  Nearly there!
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 11459

                  Originally posted by l.garey View Post
                  Let it come, Tony. I think someone feels they can say just ANYTHING to keep us quiet and get away with it. If that is not true, maybe they will tell us!
                  Picking my way through the complexities of this thread and trying to follow it through I have not understood why those who are being obstructive, are being obstructive. What have they to gain?
                  Charlie

                  Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                  Comment

                  • qattara
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2012
                    • 52

                    I read the new post that there is a lot of misinformation and confusion:
                    Medicolegal aspects: it is not true that it is difficult to get permission for the removal of bodies, we need to involve the right people! with the right motivation.
                    refers to previous cases and similar long survival in the desert
                    the aircraft that made ​​the crash were not bombers but fighters, the endowments are different!
                    if a person is healthy can go a long way, but not if it is injured!
                    mummified bodies:
                    in the case of the lady be good and others parts of the body that were under the sand were mummified but body parts above the sand were skeletal.
                    we asked an expert medicolegal report on the basis of photographs and the results are viewed, even with all its limitations, candles ways very encouraging.
                    we are at the beginning, but let's finish the job and not to defeat us from the beginning ....
                    I repeat, we have not taken any account we reported only what was found (bones, silk fabric, coin, button etc etc)
                    We spent a lot of Euros for missions, medico legal expert, experts in plane crashes, we did not ask anybody anything.
                    we wait

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                    • PeterVerney
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2009
                      • 1022

                      Charlie, as I know from long ago, the MOD work by the age old public service motto. "Do not make waves."
                      As for any response to the public. "Treat them like mushrooms".
                      And the method is "Keep them in the dark, and feed them on bull****"

                      It works most of the time.
                      Man is not lost. Only temporarily uncertain of his position.

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                      • Guest's Avatar
                        Guest

                        Qattara

                        So can you confirm, here, that the British Embassy in Cairo have NOT been in touch with you and your team as they state?

                        Comment

                        • Mark12
                          MEANS MOTIVE OPPORTUNITY
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 10868

                          Something is odd here.

                          The bones are reported to have been found five kilometres away from the wreck. Some have said five miles.

                          Imagine what one square kilometre of barren rocky sand looks like then multiply it by 78 and that is the square area that you would have to systematically search to find the bones working out to the five kilometre radius location.

                          Strange. I don't think we are hearing the full story here.

                          Mark
                          "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney"

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                          • Guest's Avatar
                            Guest

                            That is a shame....

                            Qattara was on-line when I posted the above question, and afterwards, but chose not to reply.

                            Notwithstanding the information given to Laurence, it would be helpful if Qattara could publicly set out the circumstances and facts on this forum insofar as contact with the British Embassy is concerned.

                            Comment

                            • l.garey
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 1954

                              I asked qattara if I could post the information about the lack of contact with his team, and he agreed.
                              The main mystery for me is why the embassy has not responded. My first attempt to contact the Defence Attach was in June, with 2 more since then, and now a direct approach to the ambassador: the embassy technical service just replied to my report of the full mailbox (my post 167, above) that they can do nothing about it.
                              Last edited by l.garey; 16th November 2012, 16:14.
                              Laurence

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                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                Thank you, Laurence, for that clarification.

                                The suggestion is thus clear; the Italian team are stating that the MOD statement is untrue. And yet an MP has declared that the British Embassy are in touch with the Italians.

                                Extraordinary.

                                Comment

                                • Bruce
                                  Independent analyst
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 10226

                                  Originally posted by Mark12 View Post
                                  Strange. I don't think we are hearing the full story here.
                                  Indeed - not one of us posting here has all the details; I would go so far as to say that no one person anywhere has all the details as yet.


                                  Bruce

                                  Comment

                                  • charliehunt
                                    Nearly there!
                                    • Oct 2012
                                    • 11459

                                    Originally posted by PeterVerney View Post
                                    Charlie, as I know from long ago, the MOD work by the age old public service motto. "Do not make waves."
                                    As for any response to the public. "Treat them like mushrooms".
                                    And the method is "Keep them in the dark, and feed them on bull****"

                                    It works most of the time.
                                    Thank you, Peter., It seems very cynical in such a sensitive matter, but I have to agree that from my limited experience of the Civil Service, not making waves is certainly part of the culture.. I was briefly trained in obfuscation!!
                                    Charlie

                                    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                    Comment

                                    • Guest's Avatar
                                      Guest

                                      Having once worked in Local Government I pretty much have a degree in obfuscation! Its what I used to do, I am ashamed to say.

                                      I can sense it a mile off. Mind you, it doesn't need a great deal of sensory perception to notice a brick wall of silence and misinformation.
                                      Last edited by Tangmere1940; 16th November 2012, 22:53.

                                      Comment

                                      • Peter
                                        Moderator
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 12518

                                        Just wondering .. do they think that the smoke and mirrors and the all important passing of time will make this go away??
                                        Cheers,Peter
                                        "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

                                        Comment

                                        • TwinOtter23
                                          NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 7775

                                          Not wishing to underplay the importance of a satisfactory outcome to this investigation and recovery, but I keep wondering whether the embassy staff have other perhaps more pressing issues to deal with at this difficult time in the region.
                                          Find out what's happening at newarkairmuseum.org
                                          Please help move Chinook ZA717 to Newark Air Museum

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