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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • Creaking Door
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2006
    • 9842

    No, sorry, that is TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

    The advanced materials used in the construction of Thunderbird 1 would withstand the impact with the desert much better than a P-40, particularly around the engine cowlings! :diablo:
    Attached Files
    WA$.

    Comment

    • RAF Worksop
      Rank 3 Registered User
      • Jan 2012
      • 22

      I'd question why only 4 photos and those taken outside of the aircraft at the side are so far way? I'd have taken a side on so serial would be visible. Something dodgy about the lighting too.

      Comment

      • Peter
        Moderator
        • Jan 2000
        • 12498

        He is supposed to be taking more pictures so will see....
        Cheers,Peter
        "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

        Comment

        • paul178
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Mar 2011
          • 2925

          Well Peter this thread and buried Spits have certainly livened up the forum if nothing else!

          The first thing I did after the weekends shopping with SWMBO was log on here!
          I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
          I take something for it.

          Comment

          • Peter
            Moderator
            • Jan 2000
            • 12498

            Very true there Paul..
            Cheers,Peter
            "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

            Comment

            • Beaufighter VI
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2005
              • 519

              Some recoveries where paint has not faded.
              Attached Files
              " I'm not young enough to know everything." - J M Barrie 1903

              Comment

              • Dobbins
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2012
                • 448

                Would the rudder and elevator fabric have perished like that in such dry conditions?

                Comment

                • David Burke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 10025

                  Scotavia - the level of skill required to fake that part of the rear fuselage is beyond most people. You would need to fabricate that part pretty much full size to generate anything that you could model from. That would cost a lot of time and money -not worthwhile for a hoax.

                  It should be pointed out that other aircraft have been found in the desert long after you would expect them to be gone -the likes of the SAAB B17 fuselage springs to mind.

                  Comment

                  • David Burke
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 10025

                    Dobbins -you would have Irish linen so bear in mind that it coated with silver dope to protect it from the sun. That protection wouldnt last sixty plus years then add the sandblasting effect and its pretty much what you would expect.

                    Comment

                    • DC Page
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 318

                      Why all the speculation regarding the canopy position? Nothing can be inferred from the position of the canopy or any other switches or controls in the cockpit. How many people have visited this site in the past 70 years? We don't know. What if the pilot bailed out and the aircraft came down empty and then came to an abrupt halt after digging in to the sand and rocks. That could slam a canopy shut couldn't it? Canopy position and switch positions are meaningless in this context. There are still many aircraft lying in the deserts that have been seen by only a few humans, but are still in such remote locations that they haven't been stripped for parts and sheet metal. (But you might take away a small item like a clock.)

                      Likewise aircraft position and the debris field doesn't tell us anything about the validity of the pictures because we don't know what has been moved, removed, vandalized, or even staged.

                      The pictures are still yielding some good clues but I'd stick to environment, metallurgy, markings, equipment set, impact damage, witness marks, etc. At least some things can be gleaned from those areas, unlike all this uninformed speculation about an event that no one witnessed nearly 70 years ago.

                      Comment

                      • Dobbins
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Feb 2012
                        • 448

                        Originally posted by David Burke
                        Scotavia - the level of skill required to fake that part of the rear fuselage is beyond most people. You would need to fabricate that part pretty much full size to generate anything that you could model from. That would cost a lot of time and money -not worthwhile for a hoax.
                        I bet this bloke could have a good stab at it:

                        http://www.fightingcolors.com/relicpage.htm

                        Comment

                        • David Burke
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 10025

                          If I was going to make something with that size and complexity I would do something like a lump of Spitfire fuselage and then you know you can sell it!

                          Comment

                          • brewerjerry
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • May 2004
                            • 917

                            Originally posted by Dobbins
                            I bet this bloke could have a good stab at it:

                            http://www.fightingcolors.com/relicpage.htm
                            Hi
                            That actually looks quite good
                            cheers
                            Jerry

                            Comment

                            • Bruce
                              Independent analyst
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 10219

                              Beau VI; you are a tease.

                              So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??

                              Comment

                              • Beaufighter VI
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2005
                                • 519

                                Originally posted by Bruce
                                Beau VI; you are a tease.

                                So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??
                                Well done Bruce, I wondered how long it would take for somebody to notice!
                                Question for both pictures, where and when?
                                I have a lot more types to share but do not want to hijack the thread.
                                " I'm not young enough to know everything." - J M Barrie 1903

                                Comment

                                • brewerjerry
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • May 2004
                                  • 917

                                  Hi
                                  Just a thought, if it is a kittyhawk I .... etc
                                  It would have the short nose allison engine, not the long nose, so would it still break off at the place it has supposed to in the crash photo ?
                                  The new shorter engine would not have the same weak point ?
                                  cheers
                                  Jerry

                                  Comment

                                  • Mark12
                                    MEANS MOTIVE OPPORTUNITY
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 10850

                                    Originally posted by Bruce
                                    Beau VI; you are a tease.

                                    So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??
                                    You have seen this one Bruce.

                                    Mark
                                    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney"

                                    Comment

                                    • DC Page
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2008
                                      • 318

                                      Looks like a Kittyhawk III (P-40M) doesn't it? It appears to have 6 guns in the wings. The RAF had nearly 600 of these.

                                      Comment

                                      • Shorty01
                                        Short Member
                                        • Jul 2003
                                        • 741

                                        Having edited thousands of photos in photoshop, built models & faffed about with CGI I reckon the photos are real. However I've seen then on the 'net sometime ago so I wouldn't like to guess when they were taken.

                                        I have seen a picture of the Italian SM79 in the desert before it was recovered & it was reminiscent of these P40 pictures.

                                        Most of the fabric had gone, which makes up a fair portion of the fuselage, though the visible metal surfaces appeared bare after probably having been given a good grit blasting with sand.

                                        WRT the clock missing, if it is a wind up one, could it have been removed as a navigational aid ? i.e. time of day & sun position giving an idea of where north is in the event of the pilot having no functioning compass & deciding to walk back to friendly lines. He probably wouldn't fancy doing it in the middle of the day.
                                        It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

                                        Comment

                                        • shepsair
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2009
                                          • 284

                                          P40E

                                          Hi D C Page

                                          more likely Kittyhawk IA (P40E) which also had 6 guns. The roundal style is correct for the period they become operational. Early 1942.

                                          The Kittyhawk III had a later style roundal.

                                          http://www.acesofww2.com/Canada/aces/edwards.htm

                                          Second photo is Kittyhawk III's in late 1942.

                                          regards

                                          MS

                                          Comment

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